Mahmud Akel - EP 54

Mario: [00:00:00] How are you? I'm doing great. How are you man? Dude, I'm well. I'm well. Thanks for coming into the, the studio, the dungeon, the dojo, whatever we're calling this thing.

Mahmud: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm excited.

Mario: So, um, I don't know that everybody knows who you are. So first and foremost, welcome to Stands and Sufferers podcast.

Mahmud: Feel, feel really good,

Mario: Phil. Yeah. So who are you, where are you from and what is your relation to rock climbing, the outdoors, whatever sports you love to.

Mahmud: Uh, so my name is Mamu Deel, a 31 year old from Dallas, Texas. I grew up in Mesquite, specifically, uh, Mesquite, east Dallas area. Mm-hmm. . Uh, and I got into climbing about five years ago.

Mahmud: Uh, just a whole change in life. I finished school and I had always been like, overweight and I kind of was just tired of living a life where I wasn't as active. Missing out on things. [00:01:00] and I decided to get in shape via OCR r and Ninja Warrior. What is ocr r Uh, obstacle course Racing.

Mario: Oh, okay. Uh, I thought Ninja Warrior and Obstacle Racing was the same thing.

Mahmud: Uh, they, there are the same thing, uh, but OCR is kind of like the tough utters, savage race, iron Man. Yeah. Uh, all those kind of like go under. OCR umbrella.

Mario: Iron Man is an op, it's an OCR

Mahmud: R Oh, I think that's more of a triathlon

Mario: actually. I was about to say Iron Man

Mahmud: is terrible as I think I'm thinking of a Spartan race.

Mahmud: That's what

Mario: Spart Oh yeah, that makes

Mahmud: sense. That makes sense. Yeah. So all of those, and I just looked super interesting ever since I was a kid, like obstacle courses have always just kind of like intrigued me almost to the point where like when I was 18, I joined the military just cuz I, when we did like PT and R OTC and stuff, we would go and.

Mahmud: Like obstacle courses. And I was like, I could do that really well. Uh, I never joined the military, thank goodness, but that was kind of like an interest of mine and I never really sparked that up again until after college. And I [00:02:00] was like, I could do that. And as a 300 and I was like 344 pounds at the time.

Mahmud: So I was like, I can't do it at that weight. So I had to get in shape and I joined a CrossFit gym. Okay. My, my first six months of like just changing my life and at the end of that, I. Was watching on like Beastmaster, ultimate Beastmaster on Netflix, which is like Netflix Ninja Warrior, basically. Okay. And I got in touch with this guy named Steven, who like used to work at Dino Rocks and he trained for Ninja Warrior and he won one of the episodes.

Mahmud: And I was like, oh, this guy's in Arlington local. This means it's possible. Okay. Yeah. Like that, that for some reason that logically meant like I could. Like this guy locally did it. I was like, if you can do it, I could do it. Uh, I mean, that's

Mario: fair. If you see someone in your community doing something, you're more likely to give it a shot.

Mahmud: Yeah. And so I decided to, I was like, all right, I'm gonna just get in shape and see how far I can take this. Uh, cuz I, [00:03:00] I definitely had the drive in the willpower. I just didn't have the body yet. And so I was like, I'm gonna make it happen. After like six months of doing that, I started going to a Ninja Warrior gym like once a week and realized I couldn't do.

Mahmud: and I was like, how do I train this without like destroying my body or getting injured because I was not in a place where I could train safely. Mm-hmm. at that weight, you just couldn't. So everyone was like, go rock climbing. Go rock climbing. I had zero interest in rock climbing. Like none of it, like going inside.

Mahmud: It just seemed like a, like to me, rock climbing was associated with like church camps and like, Oh, Chucky cheese and like what you did at Main Event. That's

Mario: so funny because everywhere else it's considered so counter cultural counterculture. Like it, you know, people associate L s D Shrooms weed. Oh yeah.

Mario: You know, bird dog. Have you ever seen, um, valley Uprising? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I would've

Mahmud: never thought that because to me, like my perception of rock climbing was just what we saw. Like growing up in an elementary school, they put up a rock climbing wall, but we [00:04:00] never used. And then, you know, you'd go to Lifetime Fitness or you'd go to like a, like main event or strike reel and they have like the light ups.

Mahmud: It's, it's always some seemed gimmicky. Yeah, that makes sense. And so, and then like, oh, it was one of those things that you'd go to like Celebration Station and Mesquite. Like they had the rock climbing tower and you're like, ah, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. But, and then so that was, there was that idea of rock climbing for me, and then there was the, the other end of it where you're like the Everest climbers or the people who like go out mountain, all of those and.

Mahmud: That was my gap of rock climbing. I didn't know anything in between , and so I was just like, yeah, that one super crazy that it seems like, you know, what would like we, what we said it the other day is like white people things. Yeah. That's just like, I'm not, you know, growing, growing up in Mesquite, like with a name Mak Mamu that just never seen like something I would consider.

Mahmud: Uh, and then the other end was just didn't interest me. I was like, this is like a Chucky cheese thing. And then you go in it. , you go to these gyms, it seems like they're just trying to cash grab. Yep. So, yep. That was just my mindset. So I was like, nah. But [00:05:00] when they were like, Hey, you gotta train, go do rock climbing, and ended up going to Dallas Rocks, or at the time it was Dallas Rock?

Mahmud: No. Mm-hmm. ? No, it was Summit at the time. It was Summit Dallas.

Mario: Oh, so you started before this, after the switchover? Yeah. Was it shortly

Mahmud: thereafter? It was shortly right after, yeah. Okay. And it never went seriously. Um, but then I would just go in and I couldn't do anything. Just, it was impossible. And then, so I would get on like the top rope route and find like the easiest route I could do and like, maybe I could do one clean send on it.

Mahmud: It was just the hardest thing. And then I would just be consistent. I would go four times a week, like two, two days on, one day off, two days on again. And I would just do the same route until it got reset and I'll just find the next easiest route and do that over and over until, like, I could do it 10 times in a.

Mahmud: and usually my goal was to do 10, like do a route 10 times within an hour. Mm-hmm. , and then I'd call it a day and like that was rock climbing to me. I didn't care about grades, I didn't care about anything else. I just wanted my grips to be strong. So then once I got strong and was able to hang, I could go do Ninja [00:06:00] Warrior and try to crush that.

Mahmud: Did we

Mario: meet then, because I feel like I saw you doing this because this was before Plano was built, right? Right. I feel like, did

Mahmud: we meet at some point in time? We, we did. Yeah. I was. Okay. I remember meeting like the whole old, like old Dallas crew. Yeah. That

Mario: was that. That's a whole nother animal that's not around

Mahmud: anymore.

Mahmud: Oh yeah. Yeah. And that was fun times, man. Fun times. . But I, I like, I saw the evolution of that Jim, like just change from D Rocks to what it is now. Yeah. Yeah.

Mario: You came in right at the end. Yeah. They cleaned the house pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. But it needed to be done for sure. It definitely needed to be done.

Mario: I'm, I call myself the last of Thete of sores cause I'm still around. . Uh, man, dude, that's wild. I, that's inter everybody's story into rock climbing is always so interesting. Mm-hmm. , because they're always so unique. You know, you hear some people, it's like, oh, my parents did it or I did it on a date. Like me, I mean, I went on a date, right?

Mario: And I was like, oh, this is great. You're terrible, but I'm, I'm sticking with this sport. [00:07:00] Um, you know, and it, everyone's different and that's pretty cool. Your story. Kind of similar. Do you know Albert? Okay. Mm-hmm. , Albert O Okay. On YouTube, you guys should I, I, one of these days. I gotta link you guys up, but for sure it's, it, you guys have some similarities, which I think would be cool and you should talk to him.

Mario: Albert's now, uh, in Austin doing team trials for trying to get on the usa, uh, U S USA speed team. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And he, he said when he started, he was, 2 15, 2 25. Mm-hmm. . He was, he was, he was, uh, he said he is like, I was a big boy then, and now he's in the running to be one of the fastest people in speed.

Mahmud: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Mario: That's, it's insane. It's insane. You rock climbing can completely transform

Mahmud: your life. It it, yeah. That. I've like experienced that in so many different ways. So

Mario: what made you Well, before we mm-hmm. , I wanna know what got you hooked. But before that, [00:08:00] so like, how long did this cycle of just like, all right, I'm doing these 10 routes and like, , how long did you ever reach any of your other goals that you wanted to for a Ninja Warrior or obstacle

Mahmud: course?

Mahmud: Oh, absolutely. Cool. What happened? Uh, so, and then that it kind of like, once I took it serious mm-hmm. things just started happening. It was like a rapid fire. So, uh, when I started, I was like, you know what, it was 2000, end of 2017. Mm-hmm. . I was like, I'm gonna lose some weight and I'm gonna get on, get on the show.

Mahmud: I don't care how it happens. Like if I send an audition tape, I get in, great. If not, they had what's called the walk. Where you can go camp out for two weeks and just pray that you get in. Um, but there was a way, so, uh, and that there's a whole nother story for another time for sure. Like, but when I did that, uh, I was like, okay, uh, there's the goal.

Mahmud: That's the plan. How do I get to that? And I started training and training. And when, uh, the, the gym I was working out at the Obstacle Warrior Kids, it was in, [00:09:00] it's right over like by the Galleria Mall. Mm-hmm. . Uh, I went there and it was. I can't do any of this, but the people, it's just like the rock climbing community.

Mahmud: They were super accepting cuz it wasn't like no one was competing with each other. It was like my first experience of like people competing against the same obstacle. Mm-hmm. and I, I would see people at different levels struggling the same way. And then I saw that in rock climbing as well. So for me, I just had a really, really good community of people who really wanted to support me and train me.

Mahmud: And I had some good coaches. , uh, and I would learn by osmosis and seeing other people's experiences cause I couldn't really do all the exercises or do all the like obstacles. But I would learn technique, I would learn body positioning, so I would like watch other people learn. And so it took me maybe about seven to eight months of just strictly doing like one week, one day a week ninja training and four days of rock.

Mahmud: Before I was able to like compete, uh, uh, for [00:10:00] Ninja and do like rec sports or rec courses, Uhhuh, . Uh, and then one day, this one chick, I forget her name, she was kind of like, oh, remember this? She was like really crazy. Good at climbing and just, I don't know, not all. She was like, not all there, but she was just like, really crazy.

Mahmud: I know who you're talking about, uh, and I know who you're talking about. Yeah. And. I think you know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Know. So she, but she was crazy strong and just was like, Hey, but she was well connected and she had like tested for the show and stuff and she's like, Hey, do you want to, do you wanna test for American Ninja?

Mahmud: Enjoy. They're coming here in Dallas and I can get you in. I was like, I have no business being there. What, what? And yeah. So I said, yes and

Mahmud: So I was like, yeah, okay. Um, and the, I emailed this guy, uh, the producer and mm-hmm. . I got an email immediately back and I was like, oh crap, this is real. Like, it had his, like, you know, his hand name from at Ninja Warrior, N B C or whatever it was. I was [00:11:00] like, okay, this is not a scam. This is legit. Yeah. And so he's like, yeah, uh, what's your, Like, what's your deal?

Mahmud: And I was like, uh, I'm training for an ninja warrior. And I was just like a hundred percent honest. I was like, I started like six months at like six, eight months ago and I wanna get on the show. He is like, all right, cool. Well let you test and you can bring two guests. I was like, okay. So I invited my, like one of my best friends, Eric, who he's like, like really good basketball player and like he got into climbing just cuz he was tall and he like supported me.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. and was really nice about it. And then my CrossFit coach, his name is, And I was like, you want to go try Ninja Warrior? Cuz Derek is a side story. But when I was growing to CrossFit, um, remember I was 344 pounds at the time and I walked into a CrossFit gym not knowing what CrossFit was. Oh. At all.

Mahmud: Like, I knew it existed. I didn't know what it was. I was not a fit man. I, I was, I did, I studied music and I did arts and like, I, that was my life growing up through high school and college and. [00:12:00] I was like, I walked into this gym because I saw an ad on Facebook that said, you pay $250, we give you a six week transformation.

Mahmud: No membership, no nothing. And I was like, what's the catch? You know? Because like as a bigger person, you're always told there's like seven different thousand ways to lose weight and all of it, you know? And none of it includes diet and exercise. And I've, I've taken every pill. I've tried everything and I'm like, ah, whatever.

Mahmud: And I was okay with being a bigger person at the time. Like I, you know, I had friends, I was dating somebody, like I was doing well in school and like job was great. So I was never insecure about my weight. It just seemed to be a problem for others. Oh, okay. Yeah. But then I realized it's like it was a necessity if I wanted to be an athlete.

Mahmud: Like you can't just be throwing 300 pounds around like that.

Mario: Yeah, no, I mean, it's legit. I mean, I, I'm sure there are a few people who can do it, but they're fricking Mida nights and giant human beings. Oh yeah. Yeah. I've met a guy. There's a guy who used to, there's a guy in the gym. And Grapevine named Bob.

Mario: And Bob, if you're listening to this, you are a Midianite, but Bob is like [00:13:00] seven four. Like, he's like, he like he's really is seven feet tall. Cause I remember, I've known Bob for years and he's the only person that I'm like, I have to look up to talk to him. Yeah. And then when he sits down and we sit down next to each other, I still have to look up and talk to him.

Mario: So Yeah,

Mahmud: I get that. Yeah. And so I was just like, all right, cool. I walked, I walked into this gym and I could, man, I don't know if I read it wrong, but. I, I knew I wasn't gonna do this. I was living in Arlington at the time. I had just finished school. I was at U T a mm-hmm. . And I was like, all right. I drove 45 minutes to this gym and I was like, oh, this is a dumb drive, like, not worth it.

Mahmud: I go in and I don't see any, like, workout equipment or cables or nothing like I'm used to seeing at like an LA Fitness or something like that. And I'm like, yeah, this is, I'm definitely outta my wheelhouse here. And I see Derek and he's like, like, kind of like, what? What are you doing here? Kind of like, I was like, I'm here for this consultation, and he.

Mahmud: He gave me this look at my body kind of thing. Like, and maybe I read it wrong, but I was like, like, all right, just basically he [00:14:00] said, do what we tell you, and like for six weeks you will see a change. He didn't promise me anything else other than a change, and I was like, that's vague. I take it all right.

Mahmud: But he didn't like, it was like, the thing that sold me was like, you pay one time, and he's like, you can pay half up front. And then if you know after a week you like it, you pay the rest of it. If. But he goes, it's 30 people, it's a six week challenge, and just eat what we tell you to do and do The workouts come three times a week.

Mahmud: And I was like, that's it. Three times a week, one hour. I can do that. Yeah. And I was like, I just had to do it. and I didn't realize, and I, I was always honestly kind of like, I wanna prove this guy wrong cuz he gave me this like, look like, I don't think you're gonna make it. Like, here's the information, but you're not gonna like, good luck.

Mahmud: And I was just like the, I was in the car, I was like, you know what? Fuck that like, no, I'm, I'm gonna do this. I, I'll do it badly, but I'm doing this, fuck it, three days a week, driving 45 minutes from Arlington in like completely inconvenient. Yeah. I wanna prove that guy wrong. I show. and there was like 30 of us, [00:15:00] 15 men, 15 women, and I was like, okay, what the hell did I get myself into?

Mahmud: And the first workout was like, all right, we're gonna run a mile around the thing and we're gonna do this. And I'm like, oh, okay, we're in it now. And then we, we got done and like, meet us at the board. And they're like, here's the workout. I was like, we didn't work out that was this the warmup? And I was like, ah, crap, this is gonna be 30 days of this.

Mahmud: So, uh, ultimately like after 30 days, uh, out of 30 people, like three of us were left and I was one of. and Derek, he was like, ah, I didn't think you were gonna make it. Or he said something and he was like, ah, but hey, you're here. And then they locked me in for six more months and like, dude, I, I'll say this, like CrossFit has its whatevers, but like, dude, I paid $200 a month after that and it was the only thing that worked for me.

Mahmud: I stayed in, I stayed, I worked out, I got in so much shape, I lost almost 80 pounds just being there. Mm-hmm. . And they supported me so much, and Derek like got behind me and he was like, all right. [00:16:00] He created an event where he invited all the CrossFitters to go to a Ninja Warrior gym so we could all experience it.

Mahmud: And then they trained Spartan and they trained OCRs all the time. And so I started training with these guys to get stronger. And when the Ninja Warrior opportunity came up, I was like, Derek, you wanna come through? We were gonna test. So we were at state far, uh, at the state fair part. Mm-hmm. . And we all show up.

Mahmud: And, uh, Derek's with me, Eric's with me. And when we get to the park where you're lining up, it's kind of like first come, first serve and you start seeing like all these popular people from tv and they're like, oh, that's that guy. That's this guy from tv. And I don't know if you know Carson Williams, the name sounds familiar.

Mahmud: He comes to Plano a lot. He's a, he's an ninja injur warrior. He's pretty, he's been in the show, I would say over six, seven years now. Mm-hmm. , he's been in a lot and he's kind of. One of the guys I would talk to and get some advice from, uh, just through passing, and I saw him there and everyone was like, all right, let's line up.

Mahmud: And one guy went in and we didn't get to test the course because one guy got injured [00:17:00] and it was a whole ordeal. He went in, uh, he got the six obstacles, got to the fourth obstacle, which was like a trampoline. A dude jumps on the trampoline the wrong way, snaps his leg, and like just right there and you just hear.

Mahmud: Oh dude, it was like a, like a carrot snapping. Oh. And you're like, oh, okay. So they paused. They paused testing for that day, and luckily, or unfortunately, because we only had time for that day, we couldn't test anymore. But that got us an invitation to compete for the next year because, or go to test the next year, and then they put us on what's called then they changed it for 2019.

Mahmud: In O kc, if you wanted to get on the show and you didn't get auditioned, you can do what's called the lottery. . Okay. And that was a new thing. And so the second year I, we applied to go, we show up to this random spot in Oklahoma City, and it was just like where they're filming, but just kind of off and random at this Olympic training park.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. . And they're like, show up. And we show up, there's a bunch of people and [00:18:00] you're basically picking a raffle. And in that raffle, Your odds are much better than getting on the show than actually submitting a tape because a thousand, more than a thousand tapes were submitted, but only a hundred people were there.

Mahmud: And you get one, like one chance in 25 rather than one in a thousand.

Mario: Oh, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, your odds are definitely better. Yeah. So,

Mahmud: uh, and the thing is, if you got on the show, you got a ticket, you're on the show, and then you basically go do your own thing until midnight, and then that's when they film the show for an at the night, like a hundred or two, a hundred twenty five people.

Mahmud: We'll start at like 11:00 PM and then go on until, why?

Mario: I guess they film it at ni just for lighting purposes, it looks better, or

Mahmud: lighting. And then, uh, mainly I'm not, I wasn't entirely sure there wasn't, because when they first started the show, they would do it during the day. They would do it whenever, what time of year was it?

Mahmud: Uh, so it was all, and the, for our area, it was always in. Like March, April. So it's cold. It's [00:19:00] cold. Yeah.

Mario: It sucks. Yeah. Yeah, I was about to say, I thought maybe cuz it's hot. Okay. No,

Mahmud: that water sucks. Yes, I can imagine. So you get there and, uh, and especially in Oklahoma, uh, so we do the, the lottery and my buddy get, my buddy Eric gets a ticket and gets to be on the show.

Mahmud: And you, they only gave out 20 and so he got number ticket number 19, which was great for him. Sad part what we learned about Ninja Warrior, because you gotta consider, it's like Hollywood and all that stuff too. Yeah. Um, he like, only the first 10 will get to run and then the, the back, 10 of the 20. It's kind of like if there's time you get to run, but what sucks about that is if you're on that list, you don't get to test the obstacles because should you compete, you, you sh it's gotta be your first time trying it.

Mahmud: So my buddy Eric, uh, he was on it, but unfortunately didn't make it onto the, and didn't get to test the course, but I got to test the course and out of six obstacles, I made it to the fourth one, Uhhuh , which is [00:20:00] always balance. And I died on that one. That was just, they had these surfboard things, it's like three surfboards, and it's like they're, it's like on, it's like a shape of a t and the, the bottom of it is a, A spring Uhhuh

Mahmud: And so you jump on it, it kind of wobbles and you're supposed to kind of like parkour run through it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Everyone was dying on it. And the cool thing is, is, well, not the cool thing, but the interesting is thing is, is like they're adjusting it accordingly for the competitors. So,

Mario: oh, I didn't know that.

Mario: It doesn't look like it's adjusted, does it?

Mahmud: Yeah, no, they, they'll, they will adjust it like, so, like, Hey, this was too easy of an obstacle. We're going to put like, so what I wrote all the, like, people who are, who had like experience in parkour, they were breezing through it and they would step on the center of it and just kind of bolt it.

Mahmud: So what they did was they put this triangle, Thing on it, like this triangle foam pad. So if you stepped on the middle, you're, you, you'd roll to either side. Ah. And then that was taking everybody out. And so they had to find the balance of, is [00:21:00] this obs can this obstacle have a, a lower failure rate, but not too high of a passing rate?

Mahmud: Yeah, that makes sense. So, and then, uh, I wasn't, I didn't experience this, but a lot of the females would tell me, They would adjust the obstacles for them just cuz of height. It was just kind of impossible for some people to do some of the things. Mm-hmm. there. And so you'd see that some of them moving things unprompted.

Mahmud: Uh, you'd see a lot of things behind the scenes when you're on set. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But for anybody who was interested in trying Ninja Warrior and you can't get on the show if you don't get it. Uh, they are very open to letting people test the course. Uh, okay. Yeah. As long as you have a good story and you're like athletic and like, they don't just accept anybody.

Mahmud: It's a pretty good shot. And if you can't get on, that's like the minor leagues of Ninja. And so I was able to do that and try the course and still get the experience. I didn't get on the show like Proper Uhhuh, but I had the great experience and I got invited back for the next year. But then Covid happened and they [00:22:00] kind of,

Mario: yeah, the whole world changed

Mahmud: after that.

Mahmud: But that, yeah. So then, uh, while I was doing all that in. How I ended up in climbing was, uh, Noah Hill. Do you know Noah Hill? Yeah. No, Noah. We all know Noah Hill. Yeah. Uh, shout out to him always. He, he, we were talking about it and he, I was like, Hey, you gotta come to, and Oh, the Ninja gym that I was training at, I ended up working at the, working there after I remember this.

Mario: Yeah. Cause I think when you and I first first really started chatting, chatting, you were still working

Mahmud: there. Yeah. I had gotten into all of that coaching, creating curriculum and. I really went in on it and after my first experience testing, uh, not, not really testing the course, but seeing the experience, uh, in Dallas, I was like, oh, I'm in on this and I want to do it.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. , and I told myself whatever next opportunity I got, job-wise, I was gonna go in like 110%. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hold back. Just cause like, you know. Yeah. No, no.

Mario: Makes sense. I mean, follow your passion, man. If it like lights, if it lights your fire, then go

Mahmud: for it. Yeah, I [00:23:00] mean, I was working at the bars at the time, like working as a bartender and I was just like, it was great making good money, but I.

Mahmud: Every night it's the same thing over and over. Dealing with people like kissing butt for like $4, $5 worth of tip. I'm just like, man, fuck this. Uh, yeah man. I'm gonna go teach some people how to jump on a warp wall. Yeah. Or throw your body, you know, like I was being in the indu, in the ninja industry, I was a, like, I got to see so many crazy athletes and just witness, just people at peak performance.

Mahmud: Mm. Just doing crazy thing. There was this gentleman named Frank Chap. Uh, he, he was like, you know what the traversing rings are? Yep. I have never seen anybody do that at all or do it well. And he would just get on this, these, these rings and just fly, like, just throw. And I mean, like, if he let go, dude would die.

Mahmud: I'm just, it's crazy. And I would see that daily and just see people doing silks and doing. All kinds of just crazy stuff. There's this [00:24:00] guy, isn't uh, this, this, uh, athlete? His name is Isaiah. He's a young cat. Uh, he was like the young, one of the youngest guys to get on Ninja Warrior when they were letting people under 18 or under 21.

Mahmud: He was like, okay, 15 first, 15 year old to get on the show and do well. And, uh, he trained, he's from hit this area and he trains, uh, Plano a lot. Does,

Mario: does his dad own

Mahmud: a ninja? No, that's a different person. Okay.

Mario: Yeah. I'm thinking I, uh, yeah, I'm thinking of Steven. Yeah. Yeah. Him and I are good buddies. The plants.

Mario: Yep, yep, yep.

Mahmud: I know the plants. Yeah.

Mario: They're, they're good

Mahmud: people. Yeah. I, I only know them in like, through others. Uh, I mean, I worked, I worked for his whole boss, or he used to work for the Ninja Company and I worked through his old partner, uh, and then the drama they had between that. But that, that's a thing.

Mahmud: Um, but, uh, His name's Isaiah. He trains like really, really well. And I got to see him come up and like start from like, well, I guess like a in, he would do like one of the [00:25:00] easier ninja classes or he was just in one of the beginner classes or he was in one of the classes and I'd see him and then a year later, two years later, he's competing on like American Ninja, warrior Junior.

Mahmud: And just seeing that progression, I wanted to be a part of it. How I, back to how I got into climbing though, uh, Noah Hill, I would tell him, Hey, uh, I'm working at this Ninja Jam. You gotta come check it out. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he then he was curious. He's like, tell me about these competitions you guys host.

Mahmud: And I was like, come try one out. And he goes, nah, I tell you what. He goes, I'll try out a competition. No training. Just seeing how it, like only my training as a rock climber, how that would fare. And if I do that, you go. Because I was like, that's definitely Noah. And I was just like, I'm not, I, I haven't, I'm not gonna go outdoors.

Mahmud: I'm allowed to try it, but, and I didn't think he was ever gonna do the competition, but he did. He showed up and he got like, I think out of like 40 something people got 17th place. Nice. He did very well. He got, he got really far, uh, did

Mario: he have a little stains where he started doing it for a little while?[00:26:00]

Mahmud: Uh, I think he wanted to, but then he got injured and then,

Mario: then he took a, oh, he got injured. And then I think once he got better, then he moved to the valley. Yeah. Shortly thereafter.

Yeah.

Mahmud: Then he was going through all of that. Mm-hmm. . And so, but I, I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta hold my end of this bargain.

Mahmud: And I don't, I don't think he understood how serious I took it. And so there was another guy who I was starting to climb more. I was bouldering more and I was feeling confident and doing well in climbing. and I started getting cool with the Summit Dallas staff and one person, uh, Zach, do you know Zach Camacho?

Mahmud: Camacho? I know who he is, yes. Yeah. Okay. So he was always super cool guy. Just one of the few in the there, in the gym who was like different Yeah. From everybody else. And he was like super excited and hey, I told him, Hey, we, we were talking again. Like, you know how a lot of people are like, we should all go climb outside sometimes.

Mahmud: And then I was like, he said that to me. I was like, let's pick a date. Let's, let's do it right now. And he's like, and then I didn't know what I was signing up for. He's like, you know what, dude, [00:27:00] tell me when you're free. And he goes, just bring your gear, show up and I'll take care of everything. And I was like, all right.

Mahmud: And we were going, we ended up going to hcr. It was my first time. Oh, nice. That's a big trip. Yeah. And so this was May of 2019. And so like EV May is my birthday month. And on my, for my birthday, I usually like to go on trips or solo trips and just kind of do my own thing. Mm-hmm. , that's just. I prefer that.

Mahmud: I don't like parties, I don't like anything like that. Yeah, yeah. Same here. So, so I'm like, I wanna do what I like on my birthday. And so what better way to do that than to go to Arkansas with nine other guys and nine other people. I had no idea who they were, didn't know who these people were. Uh, and I kind of like, Let on that.

Mahmud: I probably knew a lot more about outdoor climbing than I did, uh, probably purposely, just so I could stay on the trip. , I was like, I wanna be, I wanna be a part of this. They're like, you know how to lead climbing? They're like, yeah, no, I didn't, uh, . But they were like, you could figure it

Mario: out. Yeah, I was about to say, I'm sure you did really quickly.

Mahmud: Oh, I learned. I figure, yeah, it wasn't hard. I mean, it's not

Mario: hard. It's just like people have a hard time [00:28:00] balancing the. and the mechanics of it. And I think like if, if you can just focus on the mechanics of climbing mm-hmm. , then it's easy. And also just don't get on hard routes to begin with. No. Yeah.

Mario: That's, that, that, that's like the key thing. Just get on the easiest thing

Mahmud: possible. Yeah. So when I went out there, I was like, this is crazy. Like I don't camp. I've never done anything like this before. Like, oh, that was your first time camping. Like that kind of serious camping. I've, I've gone to like park camping.

Mahmud: Yeah. I've done, now I wouldn't consider those like other times camping. I thought it was camping. No, this was camping. This was sleeping on the floor with two other dudes in a small tent. I was like, yeah, this camping . So we were. So we were out there and I didn't know anybody, and I was just being nice. I was like, I didn't know to everybody.

Mahmud: I didn't tell anybody. It was my birthday. I just didn't want, like, I didn't want nine strangers like singing me happy birthday, but you know. Mm-hmm. . It was just weird. But, uh, I kept it chill. And then Zach, uh, was like, Set up everything for us, man. He had e all the gear, got us out there, took care of it, and got me up and down the wall.

Mahmud: Taught [00:29:00] me how to lead, climb. And the cool thing about being out there was like everyone was summit staff or like, they all were experienced. So I wasn't out there with people who didn't know what they were doing. I felt pretty safe. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but once I started climbing, like there was this, I think it's.

Mahmud: Called this route out there. It's called Green Goblin.

Mario: Yeah, green Goblin is a

Mahmud: classic. So that was like my first send out there and I was just like, oh, okay, I can do this. Like that's the lights turned on. Yeah. And you're sitting up there and like, I took a moment and like you just look around, you're like, I'm up here.

Mahmud: Like, oh man, I just, yeah, I just experienced something. I was like, okay, let's do this again. Let's do this again. And. That's it. I, it bit me, the bug bit me right then and there. And I was like, I could not stop thinking about just climbing and like, I just couldn't. It was just there and like everything I did after that moment had to be.

Mahmud: in support of me climbing and being a better

Mario: climber. Yeah. Zack's a good dude. I, it dawned on me who [00:30:00] you're talking about, like Exactly. I see their, their face in my head. Yeah. Yeah. Zack's a good dude. Yeah. You're lucky you went out with him. He's a very good dude.

Mahmud: I had, I had a cool, cool crew. I had Zach Kelly.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. , uh, Kelly Mason. Yep. Um, Willard. Yep. And his girl. Yep. I forget her. , but, uh, she, yeah, them. And who else was on it? Dan Daniel Ford. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen Daniel in a long time. Yeah. These are just all these crushers man, like Yeah. Uh, people who I'd see on the wall indoors and I'm like, oh, I gotta, yeah.

Mahmud: And got to know everybody and then I got to meet people out there. Uh, that's where I learned, that's where I met Tree. Yeah. Local legend Tree. Tree is the legend. And I think I'm one of the few who he hasn't taken on the first outdoor. Yeah. I

Mario: forget. Tree has indoctrinated so many people into climbing.

Mario: It's unreal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was about to

Mahmud: say, but, and, and, but I remember meeting him out there and getting to know him throughout the community and just after that I was like, I'm hanging out with people who are gonna get me on these walls and, [00:31:00] uh, this is it, it's my life now. And that's, that's kind of how it, it sparked.

Mahmud: And I would, I worked at the Ninja Gym and I would still train Ninja. Mm-hmm. . But then when the pandemic hit, I unfortunately got let go. And, uh, Samantha sold the company. And I was like, I guess I'm gonna, I just went back to bartending, saved up money, and I was just like, I'm training now. That's it. I'm just training for trips.

Mahmud: And then, uh, when the pandemic led up tree actually then took me out to Waco Tanks. Oh yeah. And this was like, you went to the Mecca. Yeah. I I

Mario: It's on You did your pilgrimage. That's a, that's a time honored Texas. Like any Texas rock climber, you've been climbing long enough. Everybody makes a PIL pilgrimage to

Mahmud: Mecca.

Mahmud: And, and it was, it. I knew how valuable that was. So when I just got a random text like, you want to go to Waco Tank? Yeah. Yeah. We're doing this. Yeah. I'm not gonna say no to this . And it was fresh out, like the gyms weren't even open yet because of the pandemic. Mm-hmm. . It was that week before. Oh, I remember that.

Mahmud: Yeah. So the state parks [00:32:00] opened up, even Waco was open, but no one was there. Yeah. Because

Mario: everybody was terrified. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, rightfully so. I mean, the world was in chaos

Mahmud: for sure. Yeah. So, but we had the entire place to ourself. Oh man. The entire place. And it was just,

Mario: yeah, that's a rarity. That's a rarity.

Mahmud: So we were out there for a week. Ugh. And I mean, I, I was just like, dude, after a month and a half of sheltering in place, or two months of sheltering in place and just being in a house with two other dudes who I was ready to kill, like I was just like ready to get outside. And we hadn't climbed. And this was.

Mahmud: If I had to do one more Facebook workout, I'm done. Like I just needed to be outside. Get into nature. Yeah. And we went out there. I couldn't climb anything, but it was like, it, I, I realized how weak I was. One like a break. You were a break from the pandemic. And two is just like,

Mario: Waco is a different animal too.

Mario: Like that's one of the things, like, you hear this thing, a lot of people say, you know, you're going outside for your first time. Whatever grades you climb indoors, you need to go two grades down. Mm-hmm. , because GR [00:33:00] outdoors is harder. And I think the answer is outdoors is not harder. It is. Let's play. The way I like to put it is, um, this is probably gonna be the worst example I can ever give, but it's gonna make it, but I think it makes the most amount of sense.

Mario: You're gonna read the Bible, you can read the King J, the Old King James version, and then you can read this new modernized version. Mm-hmm. , they're the same thing. But the context is a little different and you might have to read one of them a little bit more just to get the difference. And climbing is kind of the same way.

Mario: Outdoor rock climbing, it's the exact same thing. The only difference is, is granted outdoors in nature, there's a lot more elements, there's a lot more things involved. But like once you understand how to move on stone mm-hmm. , you actually, in my opinion, you have a better appreciation and it's easier for you.

Mario: On rock indoors. Right. But learning how to move on stone is key and, but the point of stepping down grades is not so much because it's necessarily harder. It's [00:34:00] because you don't necessarily know what you're doing. And I'll say, that was very true for me. My first time going outside, I was just like, this makes no sense.

Mario: But I kept on doing it and then when it clicked I was like, oh, this is what you're looking. This is a foothold. You're looking at depth perception. You're looking at shadows that are casted in the rock. Oh, if I, if I look at this thing and it looks like there's a jug, it doesn't mean that it is, but like the, the way the sunlight is casting on this rock, oh, these are the things, like these are the, these are the nuggets that I need to know to send.

Mario: and like once you figure it out, then you know, the

Mahmud: world opens up. Yeah. It, it took a minute to learn that. Mm-hmm. and, but you're right. Is like, you do have to kind of keep in perspective that the grades outside probably are a little different than what we're used to on the indoors. Very much so. And what I, I got that.

Mahmud: I learned that lesson real quick. And, and, but the cool thing was, is like when I went back to the gyms, I was like, now I know what it takes. Mm. Now I know where [00:35:00] I'm at. Like, I thought I was a strong climber climbing V3 s v4 s like, I'm on my, I'm on the track, I'm doing great. And then I went outside and I touched the v1 and I was like, okay, nevermind.

Mahmud: Like, I need to, I need to catch up. I need to, Get, get on the, the right level and on the right mindset. And when I, every time I went in indoors or I would e every. All my workouts were calculated or they were planned out, or it was like, what am I working towards? Am I working towards this route? Am I working towards this route?

Mahmud: And then I just would train better. Was there a particular

Mario: moment, like a boulder or a thing that made you realize that like, oh, I need to like do this different,

Mahmud: uh, so yeah, there was a V1 Hershey Symphony out there. Yeah, that's, that's, I love slab. I really like it a lot. And I would that back slab wall at.

Mahmud: Summit Dallas, that tall, sketchy thing that no one likes. I love that wall. Oh my god, it's good. Lot, lot of character building on that wall. Put hair

Mario: on your chest or hair wherever you need it to grow.

Mahmud: Fair. Yeah. And so I was like, I could do this. And they were like, all right, cool. And, and they're like, Hey, it's kind [00:36:00] of a sketchy fall.

Mahmud: I'm like, um, sketchy falls. I'm not gonna fall. Cause that's how I was. And so I'm like, I was like, I can do this. And then I look at it and I'm like, okay, this is. and like, I don't know if you've seen the route. Have you seen the route? Yeah, I have. So it's like in between these two, like a crack between these two big boulders.

Mahmud: And if you fall, you're gonna fall into like this narrow chasm. Mm-hmm. . And I'm like, man, if I fall, I'm not gonna slip through that. I'm gonna get stuck there. This could be potential hazard. All right, now I'm scared. And then the start is on this like slab, like if you fall on that, you slide down and then the first few moves are over, like the archway of that boulder.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. . . I was like, and you just follow the crack line. I was like, I can do that. Okay, just, just don't be scared. And then I realized that I was just completely unequipped in so many different ways. When I, the second I touched the route, I was like, my shoes were not the best shoes I was climbing in. So ills like, and they were just some completely worn out.

Mahmud: They're not for outdoors. The shoes that I had at least, um, uh, I couldn't control my heart rate, my [00:37:00] anxiety, I was just so scared. And then like, I did take like two falls over, like the worst. Oh, and like luckily I had tree and another guy who's tall enough to like push me into the pads, but I was like, I am nowhere close to doing this the right way.

Mahmud: You were

Mario: lucky you walked out of there cuz a lot of people do not walk out of there. No,

Mahmud: it was not. Yeah, it was not, it was not the best. I I wouldn't do that again. Um, but I was just super ignorant. I didn't, I didn't know and I was like super cocky and I was like, I could do this. I was so, so, so sure of myself.

Mahmud: Mm-hmm. and then it was just very humbling. And I Did you get on the route again? Oh absolutely. Oh yeah. Have you? Uh, not yet. I haven't had a chance to go back. Just cuz I haven't felt too confident about it. Okay. But I think I, we can do it. I think now I could, oh yeah. I, without a shout of a doubt, but I was like, I could train.

Mahmud: I just haven't had a chance to go back out there and, and really make my, I just haven't had a chance. I just, I, if you love

Mario: slab too, you should look at a route called Slim Pickens. Slim Pickens. Yeah.

Mahmud: It's real.

Mario: Yeah. It's out there. Uh, it's, I think it's in the backside of the East [00:38:00] Spur. Okay. But, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's a very committing slab route.

Mario: Mm-hmm. . It's not, I don't think it's the hardest slab route, it's just.

Mario: You need to have a lot of conviction in your movement. You can just gotta move with confidence, right? Like, even if you don't think it's gonna work, just move with confidence and just keep on going. And like, you just kind of take it one, one step at a time. The moment you start like, I don't know if this is gonna work, you're coming down.

Mario: Right? But if you're like, I'm, I'm here. Like, let's just like, let's just keep moving. Mm-hmm. , keep moving, keep moving. You can do it. It's like to the, it's, I think it's to like to the right of cow puncher. Um, but yeah, slim Pickens is pretty

Mahmud: good. Yeah. That's in the East Mountain. East Spur.

Mario: Yeah. East Spur.

Mario: Yeah. Cuz like, one of my favorite routes of all times Jingga Bells is back there and it's not too hard, it's to be five, but like, it's one of those routes where like you have it. The fall is on a ramp, so you have to like line pads all along down this ramp. And, um, if you fall, you hit a pad and then you slide down to the bottom no matter [00:39:00] what.

Mario: Oh. Oh, it's great man. It's

Mahmud: a, sounds like, sounds like a fun time, honestly. Oh it is.

Mario: It is. It is. There's some sky hook beta that you gotta use, but we can get into what that is later for sure. Oh dude, you gotta go, you gotta make a trip to, do you have a trip to Waco

Mahmud: planned? I, uh, if I. it would be, I would like to do it probably this November or this like either coming fall.

Mahmud: Yeah, this fall. Um, I just don't want to, I went in May. It was too hot. Oh dude. No. Too hot staying hydrated. Sucked. Especially cuz like no one was out there so the facilities were closed and like Yeah, we had to, it was just a lot of extra stuff. But no, I'd go out when it was a little cooler. I mean, like, and just feel better about that.

Mahmud: I definitely would go. FB is the time to go

Mario: February fb? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the cold. It's definitely the coldest. It's usually the driest out there, February and January, like, you know, or you could, you should consider, uh, Like February, you can go for Thanksgiving. Um, but I think spending New Year's in Waco tanks, cuz it's usually pretty freaking cold and it's a great time to [00:40:00] be there.

Mario: Oh

Mahmud: yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah I did. I definitely need to go cause I only went to North Mountain cuz I didn't have a guide. Oh yeah. Okay. Covid again. .

Mario: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hire a guide, take you back out to the east. It's worth it. It's so worth it. I think it's some of the best climbing is

Mahmud: back there. Oh, that's, yeah, then we'll definitely, I gotta look into that for sure.

Mahmud: Right now. The trips that I have planned right now, this year. Um, I have h I have H C R again. Mm-hmm. , and then I plan to go to Nevada. Okay. Red Rocks. Yeah.

Mario: Dude, red dude. I've spent a lot there, dude. Yeah. That, that place is amazing. Uh, one of the best cl I think it's one of the best accessible climbing places in America.

Mario: Really? Yeah. Yeah. For bouldering ropes, sport climbing. Um, multi-pitch, like it's, it's alpine ragging. It's accessible to everything. I almost considered moving there.

Mahmud: Oh really? That's,

Mario: yeah. That nice. Yeah. It's not nice. It's nice, but it's so cheap to fly to Vegas. It's like, just go to Vegas and have a weekend with a bunch of friends.

Mario: It's one of those places where like, you can literally just call up a bunch of people. I'm like, Hey, does everybody wanna split an Airbnb and a car [00:41:00] like this time? And then my opinion the beta is, is if you can get a lot of people and like, say you can get like eight or nine people to go with you. And if everybody agrees on a schedule, like, okay, this day we're gonna go bouldering.

Mario: This day we're gonna go sport climbing, you know? And um, this day we're gonna go multi-pitch, whatever. Mm-hmm. . And so this is my secret beta for that place. You get about like 10 people to go. So you can split the trip up. And anyone listening to this says, like, wanting to shoot me in the face right now, cuz they're like 10 people that so many people.

Mario: But here's what you do. You get 10 people, you get all your flights to air and B and Airbnb. Then you go to Enterprise and you rent a church van, and then you take out the back seat so you can throw all your stuff in there, and then your first day, everybody goes bouldering, or it does something that everybody wants to do, and then people rotate rest days.

Mario: So the rest day is the driver. And then you just kind of hang out and you're like, you're, then it's great because then like the rest day, the person is just taking photos, they're just hanging it out, they're [00:42:00] making lunch. They're like, you know, and it's like most climbers kind of have a servant's heart, in my opinion.

Mario: Mm-hmm. . And so, you know, if you, if you don't, that's Nope, nope, no quarrels, but. . Um, but then you are on your rest day and you're just taking care of people. You got some walkie talkies. You're just driving around picking people up, you know, just having a great day. But then the rotation, you just rotate that rest day.

Mario: And so one person always has it off. The nice thing about it is, is too, is like, let's say if like a group large, a large group, a large group of us went multi pitching. Mm-hmm. , well, it's an all day thing. It's not like, yeah, we're gonna do a couple routes. So like that. It's like a 30 minute, it could be as short as a 30 to 20 minute hike all the way to a two hour, three hour hike, two to three hours of climbing.

Mario: And then you get back. So on those days, that's a great day to like, if a large people who don't wanna do it, take a rest day, go to Hoover Dam, go catch a show at Circus Olay, go do something. Go to the other side, the east side of Vegas, and go shoot guns all day. I mean, you can do whatever you want, right?

Mario: Like Vegas [00:43:00] has everything, but it's nice because then you can kind of rotate, but then you're splitting an entire trip between 10 people. Dirt cheap. It is dirt cheap. Especially if you get an Airbnb with a kitchen and you know, some of the people, the person who's on rest day is also on cook duty because you know, or just go out to eat all the time.

Mario: Yeah, and just split the bill. It doesn't matter. Me personally, I wanna cook my food and I like to cook for people. So we would just like the, we would get there and then we would go grocery shopping and then we would do most of the cooking. Like all the meats and all the heavy things, we would cook right there and then we would just warm food back up.

Mario: Yeah. And then prepare the vegetables or prepare the pasta or whatever was easy. And we'd be like sharing like four bottles of wine between 10 people. It would be great. So that's like my, like if you're gonna do a homey trip, it's the best. And then if you're doing that many people too, I don't know if this is still true or.

Mario: Um, but I think the number's around 10, you can even call like a travel service. Mm-hmm. [00:44:00] and get a deal on airline flights. It's like, cuz everybody's on the same flight.

Mahmud: Oh, that's, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah.

Mario: Yeah. I think the number is 10. Uh, we never did that, but I heard that that was a thing that you could do.

Mario: So, I mean, someone on the internet will correct me if I'm wrong, but Fair

Mahmud: enough. I'm pretty sure like the more like preparation you can get a chip, a trip to be pretty cheap and efficient and fun. Oh

Mario: yeah. Yeah. We, I want to say, Not including flights than for a week. For a a week and a half, I wanna say. We were at with Van and Food and Park Paths and Fuel.

Mario: I wanna say we were at like 10 people were like, I don't remember. This is years ago. This is like seven years ago. So I'm not gonna conclude inflation, but I wanna say we are at. $30 a day, $25

Mahmud: a day. That's not bad.

Mario: Like for 10 people, like I, I honestly don't [00:45:00] remember cuz like we splurge, you know, like someone wanted to buy some, someone bought some whiskey cuz they wanted old fashioned.

Mario: So like when we split up the bill at the end and the rule was, is like if you wanted something on it for your own, you paid for it out of that. But other than that, like we all kind of. Agreed that we were splitting everything and community style. Yeah. Yeah. And so what I did is I just, you know, anytime there was a bill, I just had everybody Venmo me right then and there, and then it was always, and we just paid everything right then and there and it was kind of easy.

Mario: Um, yeah, Venmo cards go a long way. They make it really, really easy. Yeah,

Mahmud: I, well, that's kind of what we did. We just did that this for hcr. We just went in November and we all went, like seven of us went in on a. That's game changer. No, dude. It's the best way to go. It's easy Game, game changer. It, we spent, I spent, it was like 40, $50.

Mahmud: Yeah. For like four days and then we had a hotel basically outside. Like it was nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I

Mario: mean it, yeah, I mean it, it was somewhere between like 30, maybe 30 to [00:46:00] 45, 50 bucks a day. But even then it's still, you had, you know, three meals a day. Mm-hmm. transportation. That included all the rental crash pads that we had.

Mario: And you know, we brought all our own climbing, all the other climbing gear we just brought and we all flew on Southwest. So bags fly free. Yeah. So it was like too easy.

Mahmud: It was too easy. Well, so on trips like that, like that's your homie trip, right? When you go and hanging out and climbing with people. How about trips where you have like serious project.

Mahmud: Or like, would you handle it the same way or is it like more business oriented where you're like, I need people who are on the same track as me who want to go and work and get this done and then come back?