EP -49

Mario: Monthly recaps, early show releases, and all the other cool things that we do. Thank you so much for listening to Sends and Sufferers podcasts. Today's episode is finishing up a conversation with an OG Alo g a rail homie, Luke Skinner local DF w Legend. I hope you enjoyed the first half of [00:03:00] this conversation, as I immensely did, and I think you'll see the red wine starting to kick in, and we're starting to unwind as we get into this.

Mario: Once again, thank you so much for supporting Sons and Sufferers podcast. And enjoy the episode.

Mario: Yeah, dude, it was a wild, wild, wild story. . Yeah. You should ask Adam about Mount Whitney. He'll look at you and he'll be like, God fucking damn it, . It was a wild time.

Luke: I'll ask him when he gets back. He's uh, he's away on

leave

Mario: right now, so. Oh, good, good. He deserves it. Yeah, for real. Yeah. Him and his lady are good

Luke: people.

Luke: Yeah. Are you recording right now? Uh, yeah, we are.

Mario: Oh shit. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I just immediately hit play. It's very secretive. All . It's a big button. When it's red, it's recording. Awesome. Um, so yeah, we're, so we were just finished talking about like route setting and goals [00:04:00] and Yeah. Life. . So what are, you know, one thing I actually want to kind of address too, and then I want to hear about your, what is the difference from working from Summit, which is much more mom and pop mm-hmm.

Mario: to working for movement, which is much more corporate. Yeah. And, but before we dive into that, so what is outside of like professionalism, like what are you gut enough to do? Like recently, like now, and I'm gonna be clear, like this episode is not gonna come out for quite a while. Like we will, uh, it probably might be like November.

Mario: Okay. Or December when this thing comes out. Mm-hmm. . So I'm just gonna give that caveat cuz we've got quite other things in the pipeline. Um, so if you guys are listening to this now, Know that, uh, you know, you just time traveled . But, um, yeah, like what is, like, what are you excited about [00:05:00] climbing? Not climbing related, but like, do you have any like, personal goals or endeavors or anything that you're trying to do?

Mario: Damn,

Luke: dude. Uh, I've been like, I've been so vehemently focused on like, yeah. Climbing and setting recently that like, I haven't afforded myself a lot of other, I guess like dreams or goals. Are

you

Mario: still playing, like playing guitar?

Luke: I haven't touched a guitar or a bass in like, on like going on two years if I'm being notice.

Luke: Yeah,

Mario: bro, that's

Luke: madness. The thing is though, like I. I grew up playing guitar and like I'm decent at it, but I'm not very good at writing guitar. Does that make sense? But

Mario: are you, you good at jamming, just like kind of jamming on your own?

Luke: Yeah. Like, I mean, I'll play stuff that like, I know because it like brings me joy to play it just like you listen to a song that you like mm-hmm.

Luke: and you love it. But [00:06:00] there's the difference to me between like playing guitar for, I guess, uh, yeah, like that feeling versus like trying to create something new. I was never very good at creating something on the guitar.

Mario: Uh, yeah. You know, it's funny, it's a, does that make sense? It does, but I want to encourage you to like, to like, go back to that if it brings you joy.

Mario: The reason why I say that is like, like this podcast, for example, . Um, does this podcast make me a lot of money? No. Do I spend, but you love that shit. I do love this shit. . I spend more money on this podcast than I make. Yeah. But it doesn't matter to me because I enjoy the people in the community and for sure everything that I get to make.

Mario: But then also too, it's funny, it's like these conversations, I can't tell you how many podcasts that I've done that weed into my coaching or weed their way into like these experiences. And so I [00:07:00] think it's very, like, even like for example, when I'm hiring for a new coach mm-hmm. , I, one of the very first questions I ask once the interview kind of gets started, like real questions, you know, like they kinda ask you the BS things and then the nice things mm-hmm.

Mario: but then like you get into the nitty gritty, one of the things I always like to ask is like, you. Do you have any other hobbies? Do you have any other things like that that Oh, yeah, yeah. But then the thing I like to gauge is like, how important are those things to you because Oh, I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah, because like, you gotta think about it like you, you can learn discipline, you can learn discipline at any point in your life, but if you learn discipline, whether you are a guitar player, dancer, or whatever at a young age, and then you keep doing it.

Mario: Mm-hmm. , to me, that shows a certain level of discipline and, um, I guess, you know, work life balance, prioritization skills. Yeah. And to me, [00:08:00] that also equates to, in the moment with an athlete, you have the ability to prioritize in that moment what is important. Mm-hmm. , but people who do not have that and don't have.

Mario: some kind of chaos that they manage because there is, like, I was in, in the lesson, I said this today, uh, so like one of the things that I do all the time is I do, uh, free private lessons mm-hmm. For the staff. Mm-hmm. , and I think you've known this before, like I, I do free climbing lessons for anyone who works at the gym, cuz it's very important for me that the staff members grow in their ability.

Mario: But one in my lesson today, I was like, you know, like, because this guy was like very linear. Mm-hmm. and um, his name was Aaron.

Luke: Um, he was like, today I climbed v1. Tomorrow I climb v2. And then the next day I climb

Mario: v3. Like I asked him about his warmup and he was like, well, uh, I do exactly like four V zeros and then I do four yellows and then I'll do like three [00:09:00] reds and then this, and then then this, and then this.

Mario: And I. , do you? I was like, by, by the time you're done with your, your reds, are you feeling pretty warm? And he's like, yeah, I feel really warm, but I'm going through this line. And I'm like, why don't you just jump on a purple? And he's just like, looks at me like I just sh shot his dog . And you know, and he looked at me and I was like, man, so here's the

Luke: auto regulation, man.

Luke: Yeah. It's hard to teach because, you know, it could also lead to disastrous results. If you don't know yourself well, you

know.

Mario: True. But if you're not, but if you're not dipping into chaos every once in a while, you don't, then you really, honestly don't know yourself because you are unwilling to know yourself only in true chaos.

Mario: It's like, it's like dating, you know? It's like, you know, I, getting into the dating market, it's like, one of the things that I've read and recently learned is that you, one of the things, things you should do is take a vacation or go on a trip. , but someone that you're dating or [00:10:00] you like, go somewhere where you have no idea, you don't know anything, you, neither one of you two have been there.

Mario: And it forces you to communicate and it forces you to see how someone is when they're stressed out and in chaos. And it's like in practice, it's like the kids ask me, you know, why do you get us either all emotionally riled up or get us super tired? And it's like you have to learn how to manage chaos.

Mario: And if you cannot learn how to manage external chaos, when you have internal chaos, you are just doomed for failure. Mm-hmm. , there's nothing you can do. And you know, we all know those people, you know, early Aandra just losing his goddamn mind, screaming his head off when he doesn't send the thing. I'm not saying that that's what was going on in his head, but it did look pretty chaotic.

Mario: Mm-hmm. . And I think it's very important to be able to understand. Like if you can't dip into a little bit of chaos in your life and come right back out of it and you [00:11:00] be in control of your emotions, your thoughts, and I'm not saying you have full control on them, it's chaos for a reason, but you're at least able to wrangle 'em back.

Mario: And I don't think if that's a skill you don't practice, then, especially in climbing, you were never actually really pushing your full potential. Like, like people are like, oh, the boulder's hard. And I just fell off of it. And I'm like, but like have you gone to the point where like, like, I think you've even heard me say this, like, I need you to trace, try so hard.

Mario: Do you think you're gonna poop on yourself? Like, try so hard that you feel stupid. Like we all know that thing. It's like, it's like, um, like going back to the dating thing, it's like you're finally on an opportunity where you're dating someone, gone out on a couple dates or whatever and you really kind of like want them to like, choose you for the lack of a better term or something else.

Mario: And you almost feel stupid how hard you're trying. But at the same time, [00:12:00] like if you don't do that, you never really know what you want and or are capable of. Mm-hmm. . And I think it's very important, but I think most people shy away from that because it is uncomfortable. And you know, I don't remember where I heard this from, but everything you want in life is just outside of uncomfortable.

Mario: Yeah. Everything else, everything. Whether it's money, love, professionalism, fame, doesn't matter. Everything you want is just outside of your comfort zone. You don't lose your dignity for it. Dude, this

Luke: super fucking cheesy line stuck with me recently. It was like a month or two ago, and it was like, if it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you.

Luke: Oh bet. And I like when I first heard it, I was like, I fucking hate that. But I was also like, but there is so much. Truth's. There's a lot of truth to that. And, uh, I've, I think it's important to put yourself [00:13:00] almost in, above your head, like up to nose, you know what I mean? You don't wanna be breathing with your mouth, but you don't wanna be suffocating either.

Luke: You just want that water line right at your nose, you know? Yeah. Where you're like, I am extremely uncomfortable. Like I'm, I'm very uncomfortable right now, but like, it's forcing me to reevaluate how I respond in situations like this.

Mario: Yeah. I think that's important. And I don't think, if you don't do that in your climbing, in your daily life, in your personal life, in your interpersonal life mm-hmm.

Mario: you know, in your existential mind, you know, like, like the thing I like to say is like, if you don't, like, if you don't allow the cannon balls to go a little nuts in the echo chamber mm-hmm. , and you don't learn how to wrangle that in y you're dangerous.

Luke: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

Mario: yeah, like, like, I mean just, and when I say that from a climbing perspective, you're dangerous because, I've, hold on, excuse me, little red wine burp there.

Mario: Um, I've definitely gone climbing with people who don't know that about themselves and I've like watched them get on routes and I'm like, [00:14:00] this is about to end up real bad. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's like a route I can easily think of serpentine in. Mm-hmm. , Oklahoma. It's not a hard route 11 C, but I swear to God if you do not place that point, like 0.25 or matos, you know, double zero or whatever it is that goes in there and you try to run it out to that bolt.

Mario: One of my best friends ended up in a halo. I've known multiple people. Wait, was that

Luke: man who? Will, will, it was Will Brock. Yeah. I remember this, this was like 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember when he came into the gym in that

Mario: halo. Yeah. Yeah. My buddy, uh, Clint was like, it w I wasn't there. It was Trevor, Clint and Will and I remember Clint saved Will's life, the just straight up this fucking life.

Mario: And Will was just, you know, and it's like, and granted Will had, and I, I wanna give the clear caveat. [00:15:00] Will had climbed this route maybe like 25 times. Like it's just a classic line. It's really fun. Mm-hmm. . But it was just, Clint just had this weird feeling and Will was like, dude, he was like, I'm just gonna go up it.

Mario: And Clint was like, put on a helmet. He's like, nah, nah. He is like, stop being a fucking douche and just put on a helmet and stop fucking just being dumb about it. Yeah. And Will was kind of sheepishly doing it from what the story I heard was, but then he put the helmet on and then, His foot popped. Like it.

Mario: It's nothing that hasn't happened to all of us. It was a simple foot pop. I know it was humid that day cuz they asked me to come out and like I just couldn't come out cuz it was work. But I remember looking at the temps and I was like, Hmm. It's a little humid. Like 40, 40% humidity is a little high for the witch talls like climbing on crystals.

Mario: Yeah. You know, and his foot pop. Then next thing you know I fucking hear, I'm getting a phone call from Trevor and it is like, Will's on a hella back. And I'm like, what the flying fuck. That's crazy dude. You know? And it was just like this whole [00:16:00] thing and Clint was just like, it happened so fast. Yeah. You know, and

Luke: I think, I think this like stresses the level to which we need to like cultivate a culture of permissive.

Luke: Like we need to give permission to each other to be. Like communicate when we're not comfortable. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Mario: it does. And I think that's one of the reasons why, like, you know, bringing up earlier though, like it doesn't

Luke: make you weak to say I'm scared, or to be like, that sketches me out. Or like, Hey, you're being dangerous for no fucking reason.

Luke: But the

Mario: fact, but the fact of the matter that you have to say it doesn't make you weak. And we just can't accept that as a group of men and thinking that's one of the reasons why I like, I'm so much about bromance. It's like, you know, one of my friends was, she's like, how many boyfriends do you have at the gym?

Mario: I'm like, , probably, probably like 30. I'm like, . I mean, I ain't mad, dude. Come on, , why not? Why not? These bros are beautiful , you know? But it's the [00:17:00] same time. It's like, like for example, Chris in that uh, episode with Devin and I, you know, Chris was like talking about it. Um, I don't know if it was on the episode or after the episode, but he was, I never grew up with men being so affectionate towards each other.

Mario: Like Chris who? Hampton. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. So sorry. Yeah, Chris Hampton. And he was like, I just never grew up with men being so affectionate towards each other. And he was just like, it's just almost a little like off-putting sometimes, but I was like, but I'm like, but we don't do this. I'm not trying to say like, go full Roman here, you know, whatever you're , you know, listen, like Juneteenth is right, like, sorry, June is right around the corner.

Mario: And then Juneteenth too, so don't forget it. Which I think is interesting that those are the same day. I want to, I'm curious, I wanna research that on another thing. But you know, the issue is, is like I personally believe there has been this weird trend and in my family it has never [00:18:00] been this way because just the way the men are, my family, I don't know if this is a Jamaican thing or not, but like intimacy and vulnerability.

Mario: and transparency to a certain extent. There's a little bit of cheese, no, there, obviously. Mm-hmm. . But, um, it's just, it's almost like it's frowned upon and I don't, yeah. And I, and I just, I, I think it's something that honestly, I think, and if any, if in any sport climbing has the ability to change that, because climbing is a, I mean, the wall is the great equalizer.

Mario: It doesn't give a fuck who you are. And I don't know, I just, I don't know. I just think, you know, I'm kind of losing my train of thought here, but it's the red wine talking. No, you're good. But I think that's one thing that is not talked about or expressed or done a much, because unless it's someone actively doing it, and I know I [00:19:00] actively try to go outta my way to.

Mario: If I see guys in the gym, just like younger guys, older gentlemen, doesn't matter. Like I want to befriend them, but I want them to know that like, I think that like you're special. I think that you're here. I'm really psyched that you're here and once again, I have no idea where my train is completely gone off the rails right now, but Dude, you're good.

Mario: But, um, you're all good. I think the thing that's important at the end of all of this conversation is, is being able to honestly, vulnerably, transparently, have conversations with people Totally is key. And I just, I don't know. I feel like,

Luke: I think just being like genuine about yourself and like where you're at with others, when the moment in the prompting is appropriate is totally like good.

Luke: Like that's a good way to live, you know? Like, if there's a moment where you can like, share some humanistic aspect of yourself that's not just like, oh yeah, it's fucking hot outside, [00:20:00] or the fucking cowboys did X or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, if you can level with them leveling, that's the, that's the great way to put it.

Luke: If you level with them, you know, where you're like they're experiencing some struggle and you relate to it in your own telling of your own experience of that struggle in the past, or like, or, you know, you, you basically display yourself as like a, a vulnerable human being by not trying to put up a front, like you're some infallible deity, you know?

Mario: Yeah. . No, I think, no, I think you're spot on. I think you're spot on. Just level with them.

Luke: Like, you don't, you don't need to like present yourself as like this super fragile human being, like all you're made of glass all at all times, but you're also not, you know, Made of titanium, but like you're, you're, you're both at different times of your life.

Mario: Do you think That'ss hard to do with climbing, with the nature of the sport? [00:21:00] And I, I think it's moving away from this, which I'm really excited about, but I, climbing is kind of egotistical in its own way. Like it's a, it's an ego-centric thing. Like you're trying to like do this thing whether you choose totally be conquering the wall or moving within the spaces of the wall, like water over rock mm-hmm.

Mario: whatever, however way you do it. But like, I think like this ego thing that goes along with it, it just makes it hard. And I think because of the exertion level that goes into it, especially between men, it's kind of like this, like pissing match naturally right off the bat. And I, that's

Luke: definitely like, definitely something that exists, but I think, um, it's definitely dwindling.

Mario: It is, but I think it dwindles between season climbers, but new people coming in, I, I, I, I still think it is a vague. Little bit of a pissing match. But I agree with you. I do think it is dwindling because just looking at, just looking at the people who are coming in and just, you know, I'm in the gym all day long.

Mario: Mm-hmm. , I'm coaching kids and [00:22:00] you know, I'm probably giving myself out here, but like I hear the conversations that people are having around me. Mm-hmm. , I'm 90% of the time focused on the kids, but my ears work. Yeah. You know, and, um, it's, it, it's just interesting. And I think, I don't know, I think climbing has this really unique ability to bring some wokeness to the community.

Mario: And I think, I don't know, like going on a tangent here, but I think there is, this needs to be this wokeness and masculinity that needs to happen. Cause I honestly feel like there's been a lot of masculinity confusion going on in the last couple years. Like, am I too tough? Am I not a tough enough? Am I too emotional if I'm in this am in that?

Mario: And that, I mean everything from like, you know, what's his name? Samuel, who just died, this black guy. To Roe v. Wade to, I mean, like, there's all this thing even, I mean, fuck even the Johnny Duck fucking thing, which is crazy. I don't even,

Luke: dude, I don't, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't got time for that shit.[00:23:00]

Luke: Like,

Mario: I, I can't help it. Like, I think Johnny Death is a gangster. My,

Luke: my, my partner, she's been following that entire trial from start to finish and she can tell you every, everything about it. And I love that that's something that she gets entertainment out of. I rewatch the same fucking shows over and over in the same movies.

Luke: Like, I'm one of those people. But like, no, no, I'm with you. So, like, I can't judge because I also have my own, you know, Brain turnoff moments where I rely on a crutch, but like, I fucking, just like every time somebody mentions like the Amber Johnny Depp trial, I'm just like, I fucking can't. My brain just like checks out.

Luke: I'm just like, I'm not a here, you know, , that's fair. But that being said, like, yeah, I, I do think you're getting at something where like masculinity is, you know, involving flux. It's always, it's, but it's always in flux and there's a lot of reactionary, like a lot of reaction to it. You know, like people constantly feel the need to justify [00:24:00] themselves to the whole mm-hmm.

Luke: and unfor. What an unfortunate like, reality is that like, time will march on a thousand years from now, that shit is still gonna be a problem. It's still gonna be in contention. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's gonna be in some new phase. You know, society where like men are expected to be one X way and women are expected to be another way, whatever.

Luke: Like, I, I think one thing that I, I'm glad, that, I'm glad that I can say that I feel this way is like, I don't ever feel like I need to justify myself one way or another. You know? If I feel like shit and I'm feeling sad and I'm like, fucking down, I don't need, yeah. I don't need to hide that, and I don't need to explain it either.

Luke: Yeah. And if I'm feeling like baller as fuck , like, like I'm on one, you know, like, and I'm feeling very, very, like, um, performative, I guess. Yeah. Not performative sounds wrong. Uh, no, no, no, no. [00:25:00] Like I, you're spot on. Like, I, like I'm, yeah, dude, you pimping, you know what I mean? Yeah. You're pimping. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: Totally. Yeah. If I'm feeling that way, then I, I don't need to hide that either because. I celebrate those around me when they feel that way too. You know, I think that's a, like, that's, that's a great feeling to see others around you achieving. And you have to realize that like everyone else around you feels the same way about you.

Luke: And so you shouldn't feel guilt for the moments where like you're feeling on one, you know? Yeah. I think you,

Mario: does that make sense? No, no. I think you hit the nail on the head . And I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You, you hit the nail on the head. I think the thing is, is like your, your wine

Luke: brain is leaking into my brain now.

Luke: Yeah. Yeah. .

Mario: But like, I, I think you'd hit the nail in the head with it. It is, is like you, you hit a very kid thing, like when you're on one and you're like, you're moving in that state, and others reflect, and others respond to that. And you want to reflect that with other people, and you wanna promote that.

Mario: But I think, and maybe this is just in like, how old are

Luke: you? You don't ever [00:26:00] want to misrepresent yourself though. True. Like, if you're fucking out there, like putting things out that are not true and you're inflating what you're doing, that's a whole nother bucket. That, that, that's a thing. That is what I would describe as like something that's like, Poor display of like your whatever, self-identification, your masculinity's, whatever, like Yeah.

Mario: No, that's an entirely, entirely different thing. Thing.

Luke: You're, you're lying. Yeah. Yeah. What were you, what'd you, what'd you asking me though, sir? How old are you? I'm 30. I turned 31 this year. Yeah.

Mario: See, this is, I think, how old are you? 37. Okay, so you're not a, yeah, no. See, I think this is like, you, you don't become a G until you 30

Mario: You just don't become a G until you 30. This is, this is for women and, and men, like you don't become a G until you 30. Because the reason being is, is like , like you just stated that like, you know, you're flexing or pimping and you're walking out there and you are walking out there and you are flexing and pimping and you wanna support everybody else in that same mindset, even if they're doing it.

Mario: And you guys are both doing it together. But I think at a younger age, [00:27:00] I think especially in sports or. And just in today's modern world, it just fucking just blows my mind. Listen to the shit that kids say these days. But

Luke: you sound old as fuck saying that . Oh dude. The kids these days, dude.

Mario: The things they're saying, telling, I'm telling you dude.

Mario: I literally, I mean, I coach from three year old to 19 year old. Yeah. On a regular basis. And listening to the shit that they say. It's just like, really?

Luke: Yeah. I guess one, one thing that's hard for me to wrap my brain around is like, I didn't have the internet until I was like, you know, somewhere between eight and 12, you know, like an internet access, like e modem and everything.

Luke: But like these days you have kids who have been on an iPad on the internet since year one. Dude, it's dark earlier. It's crazy. And like, but the, the thing is, is I'm not saying it's. I think it is. I mean of course you do cuz you're older and you didn't grow up that way. But like

Mario: I, I had the internet

Luke: shit, dude, I'm [00:28:00] up All the examples that you can possibly think of that are immediate to your life where like it's gone awry and some kid is acting like an absolute monster because of whatever.

Luke: Um, I think there are probably also other examples out there of kids who are exceptionally brilliant or gifted in some way because of the vastness of knowledge that they've had access to since birth because of the internet. You know what I'm saying? And so like, I'm trying to say that like it is this thing that affects our evolution as a species in ways that we will never really fully be able to comprehend.

Luke: or even control. Mm-hmm. , you know? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm , uncontrollable. I think it's happening to us. It's not something that we're controlling. I think the thing that the the and there and it, it can't be changed.

Mario: The variable that you're not thinking about though is the parents because like kids are representation of their parents For sure.

Mario: And so like I agree with you, like I definitely think the vastness of knowledge, maybe their parents

Luke: are pieces of shit. I [00:29:00] don't know. , definitely

Mario: their parents are peaches of shit. . Like, listen, okay, look, I'm gonna go ahead and give this caveat. If you, all the kids that I coach, you and your parents are wonderful people.

Mario: This is getting edited out anyways. So , yeah, no, no, no. This is staying in, this is staying in. I think all of y'all are wonderful people and some of y'all need more Jesus. And some of y'all need less and some of y'all need something else. But you know, , you know who you are. But I think the thing that that is, is like, that's where the parents come into play.

Mario: That's where character, debil character building and development comes into play. And kind of boiling back to this thing where like you talk, like you were saying, pimping and flexing like, Ooh, sorry, wine burp. Woo. I almost threw up my mouth, dude, don't do that. I'm not doing that. I'm gonna drink more wine.

Mario: So I don't do that. Um, I think one of the things that is really important to recognize in this like weird off topic that we're going on is [00:30:00] your parents and your surroundings are the things that help you decide your decision making towards these things. And I think at some point, and I don't know what's, there are parents who are this way and aren't this way, and it's a hard balance, but everything is a competition.

Mario: Mm. And my child has to be better or I have to be better. And that's why some people when like you're flexing and you're just rolling in the gym, some people take it as an offense. But then I think when you hit 30 and a little older, you become set in your weight. It's like you're a fucking banana and you've been soaking up all this stuff in your life.

Mario: And only cuz it's like trying to like peel an unright banana. The thing is it's a fucking mess. It's like you can barely peel it off. It's like ripping, like ripping, like trying to peel a plank tang. It's terrible. Mm-hmm. . Um, and um, I think once you reach a point you become [00:31:00] confident enough in your own self and you don't have to be fully confident, but what you are as confident enough where you can respect confidence and you can see confidence.

Mario: Yeah. And you can and do it. But jumping ship here, flipping gears, I do really, really, really, really wanna know. What is the difference between what is, what has been the, what are the maybe two or three top noticeable difference from working for Summit, which is much more mom and pop? Mm-hmm. comparison to working for movement, which is, you know, global gym.

Mario: Uh, or corporate America global gym, however you wanna say it. I don't

Luke: think corporate America is a great way to describe movement, if I'm being honest. Speaking as somebody who worked in, in corporate America prior to

Mario: my route setting experience, I mean, I don't know nothing, baby.

Luke: That's okay. I mean, other people might give you [00:32:00] a different response, in all honesty.

Luke: Um, but I don't feel as such at movement, thankfully. Like, I mean, I've said this to a lot of people, but like the reason that I took this job was so that I could work with setters who've I've, I've admired for 10 years now. Mm-hmm. Ryan, when I first joined Ryan Sewell was my, my boss, my direct report. Oh geez.

Luke: He used to be, yeah, he was the headset setter at Dallas Rocks when I first started climbing og. And it was this moment of opportunity for me to close the circle where I. That dude set, probably the first V five I ever climbed, or the first V3 or the first V seven, like first of many grades that I ever climbed indoors were probably set by him.

Luke: Mm-hmm. . And so this, this opportunity for me to subsequently learn from someone with that much experience, you know, and who's obviously like, um, he's a staple. Yeah. I mean, who, who I, I would argue is like one of the, one of the best route setters in the country. Um, I couldn't pass it up and, [00:33:00] um, I think it's been incredibly fulfilling for me to be able to learn from him, but also, not only him, but like to see the team that he's built.

Luke: Oh yeah. So like all of the other setters that I've met at Movement are all like wonderful people, like straight up like, uh, people that I would, that I consider friends beyond just work. Like if I quit movement tomorrow, , I would still keep in touch with all of them. You know, they're not just my, my coworkers, they're like people who I actually found, um, like a lot of commonality with, you know?

Luke: Mm-hmm. . And, uh, anyways, so that's to kind of qualify my, my comment about, uh, movement not being globo, Jim Corpo Corp. Corporate world. Uh, but, uh, I think the two biggest, like differences between them is that at movement, um, [00:34:00] there's a lot more structure in that, you know, there are, uh, prescribed slash um, established ways of doing things.

Luke: Mm-hmm. , which for me is fine because like I, I, I thrive in structure. Mm-hmm. like I do really well when you give me an assignment and a boundary within to work. , you know? Yeah. Um, whereas at Summit there was a lot of freedom and I think like that is perhaps one of the greatest strength that Summit has in with respect to developing setters is like you can try anything.

Luke: They have team Texas there. Like if you want to try to set the next wackiest move your brain can think of, which we've done many, many times. Yes. You always know that there's some really stoked 16 year old kid on team who's like going to throw themselves at it for two [00:35:00] hours until they figured it out.

Luke: And that's not to sound like a masochist, like you just don't care about anyone else's experience. Like that's obviously like selectively chosen to be No, but art nested within like a greater commercial experience. Yeah. But that being said, like at Summit, there's a great freedom of getting to set your heart's desire.

Luke: Yeah. If

Mario: that makes sense. I think that's art. Like that is much more art. Than anything else because art is truly just creative expression. Mm-hmm. at its full form all the time, whenever you want it. And I definitely, I, I can agree with that. Summit is very much this world. Like the unique thing about Summit is, is you can make any, I've told people this for years, if you dream of a job, you have a dream job and it doesn't exist, but you know there's a service for it, you can create that job at Summit.

Mario: Interesting. You can't really do that anywhere else. I mean, every, yeah. Like there's so many [00:36:00] jobs that have been created at Summit that are still a part of it and some maybe they've gotten absorbed by other things, but you can kind of like just go full mad scientists there. But

Luke: I think where, I think where that freedom exists, it also like at Movement for instance, and maybe don't have as much like.

Luke: Wide birth, you know, to navigate. But I will say that like now I'm more strategic and selective with the times that I choose to push boundaries. Hmm. And moreover, I think that like there's a little bit more, Hmm.

Mario: How do I

Luke: put that? We're, we're more of designers at, at movement is how I would des de delineate the two, if that makes sense.

Luke: Yeah, yeah. Like when you design, when you design something, it's like very different. You're designing it to be interacted within a certain way, but it falls within the context of a greater [00:37:00] body. And that structure has to exist for that to be cohesive, you know? Mm-hmm. . And, uh, I think that that structure exists because it's such a large company.

Luke: They have established ways of doing things established like protocols and you know, systems of organization. And, um, I think. If you're a person who thinks that it's like a, you know, a corporate hell skater or something like that, then you're not somebody who thrives well under structure. Yeah. But like if you're somebody who sees structure as a challenge to your own creativity, then that works so well because like I personally find, if you give me more restrictions, I can be a better and more effective route setter.

Luke: I'm more efficient because I know it's like one less thing that I'm allowed to do, so I get to be more creative with what I'm given. It's funny, sometimes a blank canvas is the most daunting thing on earth. Does that make sense?

Mario: Oh yeah. No, no. It is. So it's funny you saying that reminds me of [00:38:00] school uniforms.

Mario: So school uniforms are the, obviously for anyone who had to wear them. But this next statement, I'm about to say along with this, you know what I'm talking. There's always a little bit of wiggle room. It's either like in your shoes, Uhhuh or that Uhhuh. But like, so one of the things that I was

Luke: like the eyelets of your shoes.

Luke: Yeah. Like if you got colored eyelets, that shit is fresh. Yes. You

Mario: know? Yes, yes. Yeah. You pick up. Yeah. I'm saying

Luke: brother, but it's like, it's a, it's a small little things that like subtly hint at like style or whatever. You know? I noticed

Mario: this when I was, uh, before Covid, I don't know if you remember I was doing this a lot, but I would go do career days and I would go talk at all these schools.

Mario: I like if any school asked me, and if anyone's listening to this now, if your school does a career day, I will happily go talk about rock climbing, the career industry and all that other stuff. And I will showcase rock climbing. I've got a thing that I do. But I remember going into these private schools or public schools or charter schools that had [00:39:00] uniforms and it was just so interesting.

Mario: Like the kids could change their laces. Or the eyelids. Mm-hmm. , or they could decorate their backpacks. But like within structure, it forces creativity to come out. Especially when you have people who are desperate to express themselves, like teenagers and young people and Yeah. Things like that. And so it just, you know, and you don't lose that skill when you get older.

Mario: You only lose it if you don't use it. Yeah. And you only lose it if you put yourself in a position where you can't do it. And that's kind of one of those things where, going back to earlier, I like to hire people who have some kind of other side passion that they do because it shows to me that they're like constantly growing.

Mario: Yeah. And I think it's important. And I think like, you know, rock climbing is constantly evolving. If you are not, you become, I mean, obsolete.

Luke: I also think that like, because climbing is rooted, at least in [00:40:00] America and like this very countercultural like. Movement. Mm-hmm. , uh, there's a lot of irreverence, like deeply seated in like, the culture of the sport, you know?

Luke: Mm-hmm. , and that's, that's awesome. Like, I think that irreverence is like, not something to be punished, but it's also something that's dangerous if it's in excess, you know? Mm-hmm. . But like, I think that like a healthy amount of irreverence is really what pushes things forward. Um, I can agree with that. And I think that that's what o like what climbing, like why a lot of climbers are also like, into skating.

Luke: Like skating also has a similar vibe, you know? Mm-hmm. , where it's like very irreverent. Like you're, you're transforming the way you interact with and perceive shared space, right? Mm-hmm. like public lands. It's not just for taking photos and going on hikes, like we're gonna be on that. And like, that's the way skaters treat like a curb.

Luke: Mm-hmm. or like a fucking rail or a 10 stair. 10 stairs. Huge. But you know [00:41:00] what I mean? Yeah. No, I'm getting at, yeah, no, I do, I pick up what you're, and I, you know, I, I think that that's something to be cherished because like, fucking walking down the street is boring, you know, with, but if you see someone, you know, Trey flip a five, stare this sick as fuck, like , I don't know.

Luke: You, you see what I'm saying? Like I, yeah, yeah. No, I do, I I think that there, we should, we should celebrate that aspect of this sport because like that at, at its is, is part of what its heart is.

Mario: You know what I mean? Yeah. No. The same thing. Hiking on a trail. You see these big boulders is sitting around and you're like, these rocks are pretty, you come around the corner and there's a pad on the ground and these people just go to town on a session on it.

Mario: Yeah. And you're like, what the, like it transform. Why? Yeah. It transforms your perception of the reality that is around you. Yeah. And I think that is growth. And I think at the end of the day, . I don't know. I think that's like, probably boils it down like climbers. We, as people are at the end of the day, are always trying to grow because [00:42:00] I think it's just in our nature, like the nature of climbing is like you, you like, if you grow, you're, if you, if you unwilling to grow, you just don't get better at it and eventually you'll just move on and yeah, growth is painful.

Mario: Growth is rough. Growth is

Luke: hard. The thing is too though, like, and Jalene Gele said this one time to me like a year or so ago, and she said like, uh, train to maintain. She was like, that's the game that I'm on. She was like, she was like, I have so much going on outside of my climbing life. Like I come here to maintain what I have, but also because it brings me.

Luke: beyond just the progression, you know? Mm-hmm. is what she was ultimately getting at. I think, I hope I'm not misrepresenting your words right now, Jalene, but I think that there's some deeper truth to that as well as like, like, it's like yoga in the sense that like you're, you're not necessarily trying to be the perfect yogi.

Luke: You're not trying to do down dog perfect for [00:43:00] the 10000th time. Sometimes there's beauty in just like in the doing itself, you know? Yeah. And, uh, there are days when I love going into the gym, put in my headphones, I ignore everything around me, and I just think about all the, I try to find the micro beta again.

Luke: Mm-hmm. in every movement I'm doing, you know? Yeah. And that, that feels really, really incredible as well. And, uh, Don't get me wrong. I'm one of those people who like, I, I fucking, I got goals too, you know? I wanna climb harder than I ever have. But yeah. No, I'm with you babe. I also, I also still love nothing more than like, flowing through some really, really enjoyable movement, regardless of how hard it is, you know?

Luke: So,

Mario: yeah. Climbing's complex man. Yeah, it is for real. Like climbing is complex. Like humans are complex. It's like, I don't know, man, just like having this conversation with you, it's like I, you know, I had no idea where this would go and how we would talk about [00:44:00] this. And I think the thing that's, it's abundant to me in this moment that like, and let's just say this about any sport, so I'm gonna just like broaden this out, but I really am talking about climbing.

Mario: But I think if you find a select group of people who are really passionate and really dive into something, , you find out that these people have more complexity to them than you'll ever know. And yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing is, cause you mentioned it earlier, like, you know, a lot of doctors and things like that, and that's one of the biggest things I've seen.

Mario: Like doctors, engineers, people who are like heavy brain jobs are into climbing. And I think it just, I don't know, maybe it's balancing for them. I also

Luke: like, I also think that it's, it, I, I think I offered that as a simple observation, but I also think like it's for people who also are like healing. Oh yeah.

Luke: Does it make sense? When I discovered climbing, I was very much like [00:45:00] detached from my being. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

Mario: Um, I mean, you're, I mean, you're forced to reconcile what yourself, I mean, your ass is gonna be on the mat, so you're just forced to reconcile Totally. What yourself, it's like, You throw yourself at it emotionally and physically, and it's just not happening.

Mario: The sin is not happening. Yeah. And I find like one of the greatest sins in my entire life route is not that hard is, but it's the Hulk, I think it's called The Incredible Hulk. Or The Hulk. Uh oh. Yeah.

Luke: And, uh, uh, cow. Cow. The low start to that, that that turd of a low start to rings of Uranus, like one of the Yes.

Luke: One of the best, best boulders in Arkansas. And somebody decided to add the shittiest first move into it. . Yeah.

Mario: So I, I remember I couldn't do it. And I remember the one day I sent it, I was, I couldn't do it. I

Luke: don't, I still don't think I've done that boulder. Oh dude. I tried it with Stephen Wynn like nine years ago and I was like, this is what

Mario: Stephen Wynn, I haven't even thought of that person in [00:46:00] forever.

Mario: Yeah, dude. Steven, if you're alive, you should say hello.

Luke: Um, he's up making some of the finest, uh, furniture in New

Mario: York right now. Oh my God. He would, yeah. Um, But, uh, uh, I, if you know Stephen Wynn, you know why I say that, but, um, you know, uh, I just remember I was Dr. I couldn't get that boulder all day and I drank myself to like an oblivion with some Jack Daniels.

Mario: I was drunk. I threw up outside of my tent and we were gonna leave the next day and someone was like, you wanted to do this boulder, so you better fucking get up. I was drunk, stone cold drunk still. I remember just getting outta my tent, throwing up, eating some food, walking over the boulder. I like tried two or three attempts, sent it on the third, got down, walked back over to my tent, start putting it up, threw up again, Jesus.

Mario: And then, and then I went home. And you know, it's funny, I look back at [00:47:00] that moment and it was like, I just didn't give a fuck about the boulder anymore. Like, I just didn't care. Yeah. I was like, and then the moment I stopped caring about it, the moment I released it and I stopped let, I stopped letting myself.

Mario: I stopped letting it have power over me and me making sure that, that this boulder defined me is when it went. And I didn't do anything different than I did before. I mean, I, I mean, I did, obviously I did something different. Yeah. But like when I was climbing it, I don't really feel like I did one thing different.

Mario: Yeah. And I think that's like, really, I think that's like something that's important. Learning

Luke: to let go in a sport where it's all about holding on is like, yeah, it's fucked up. Yeah. Like, uh, learning to be not visceral in this very like, fight or flight style sport, you know, where it's like you're literally just gritting your way through it.

Luke: It's very

Mario: hard. Yeah. No, I, it's [00:48:00] extremely

Luke: hard. And, and that's why it's like, that's, that's that, that's what you're hoping for though, is those moments where like, you just have this zen. experience, you have no attachment. Mm-hmm. . But the end result is like tremendously satisfying. You know,

Mario: rock climbing is a tremendous amount of failure for one glorious moment of success.

Mario: Yeah. It's fucking

Luke: silly. .

Mario: I, oh, what is it? Um, Danny Andrada said it best anyways, like, rock climbing is stupid. Like we, we climb around like we're like ips and like just on the walls, rock climbing is dumb. And in the concept of it itself, Danny Andrada Yeah. Saying that. Let's, let's, first, let's give the cavi is Danny Andrada saying that, but put up with

Luke: like the most futuristic routes ever.

Luke: The

Mario: man is prolific. Yeah. The only person in the world I think, who is bolting that I know of, like Danny Andrada is, um, what's his [00:49:00] name? Oh, like he, he escapes me. It will come, it'll come back to me. But the man red wine brain will catch up. . Yeah. Yeah. But he bolted most, he bolted almost all of sira. And then I, I couldn't name that person.

Mario: Yeah, I don't know who that, I have the guy book over here in a minute. . And then Jeff Jackson is the other person that, um, comes to mind. I was like the most prolific bolters in the world. And if anyone's listening out there, I aspire to be like all these gentlemen. I just wanna be the first. I mean, I might not climb like Danny and Adriana, but I wanna be the first mixture of all of them.

Mario: So if you wanna sponsor brother for bolts, just throwing it out there, brother for bolts. Is that your

Luke: Yeah, brother for bolts. Dude, you've always got something new coming up. I'm always impressed. Uh, you know, like every, every time like I see some of your shit, I'm like, dude, Mario is just. Tireless. I, it's amazing.

Luke: I don't like

Mario: being bored in all. I got like, I

Luke: got like five things that I do on a given day. Five. Like I know that sounds, that's a hard number, but like, dude, I, you sound like [00:50:00] somebody who has like

Mario: 50 . Nah, man, I'll be, I'll be honest with you, I probably flex between like, Four things, but I've got a journal over there that's probably got like 50 to a hundred ideas.

Mario: I bet. Um, my big thing is, is like I picked two or three things that I wanna stick to, and this like bolting project that I've been working on, which, you know, this is probably the first time I'm really, really, really talking about it and the journal public, but like, I've been bolting here in Texas for a while, uh, and bolting is expensive also to, going back to Danny Andrada, how do you afford all these bolts?

Mario: that's what I wanna know. . And if anybody's out there, like brother's trying to like, you know, I'm, I'm trying to change the geological landscape of Texas or change the geological landscape of climbing and if you wanna haul at me, then you'll know why . Um, but uh, yeah man, I try to, like, I, I stick to like two things and recently the podcast has been, the podcast in bolting have been the [00:51:00] two side hustles that, in my opinion, that have been.

Mario: The most fulfilling to me that they've given me a sense of purpose, given me a sense of drive. And most importantly, I feel like I'm actually giving something back to the community as a whole in large. Um, you know, my guiding company took a tank during, um, I mean, it's covid. Yeah. It was double tapped. It was just a double tapped during covid.

Mario: Yeah. And then getting out of it and then, and then being outta the country for a little bit. Um, but, uh, and then coaching is just the bread and butter, you know, I love it hands down, but it is the bread and butter and, um, I think the biggest thing that I've learned is, you know, you kind of go through waves, but any project you pick up, you should never pick up a project that you can't put.

Mario: I mean, it, it's a true thing. Like you should never pick up a project that you can't put down. The reason being is, is like you will have burnout, especially if you're someone like me who, [00:52:00] like, I like stimulus, I like my brain being creative. I want to create art. You know, I, I like framing. I like, you know, my weird, crazy dog thing over there in the corner.

Mario: Like, I like doing different things, um, that stimulate my brain. But I understand that like I can't be a savant at all of those. I can't be a master at all of those. Yeah. And so what I would rather be is, you know, a jack of all trades instead of being a master of one. And, but the thing is, is you can gain depth in these things through understanding that they come through phases or times.

Mario: And this is where like understanding your life and what you got going on. But like, I'm strategic about 'em, like, you know, , like I had to step away from the podcast for a while. Mm-hmm. just not because I really wanted to, but the real, real reality was life caused me to do that. And in stepping away from it, I realized how much [00:53:00] more I could actually do with it.

Mario: And then the same thing with bolting. I stopped bolting for a while and I started climbing more and just, just going around climbing other people's roots. And then all of a sudden I just started seeing all these lines in between, all the stuff that I'm seeing. I'm like, what in the world? Like, why is no one doing this?

Mario: And I think the thing is, is if you can't put it down, maybe another way to say this is instead of you can't put it down, it's like if you're in a relationship, I think one of the most telling signs that you are in love and that you enjoy the person that you are with, and you choose the person that you are with, is that.

Mario: you enjoy missing them. Like it's like you wanna be around them, but when you miss them, oh my fucking God, it drives you up the wall. And then when you see them, you [00:54:00] are more excited than a Corgi. A Corgi that hasn't seen its owner in like five years. And a child that hasn't seen its parent in like, you know, two days.

Mario: Mm-hmm. , you're just like, you're just oozing with this joy and you're just oozing with this thing. And I think the thing is, is you can have that and all the disciplines and everything that you have in your life, but if you have something in your life that is so important to you that you can't put it down, then you have to ask yourself, and I normally say this with kids when I'm coaching and to other people, your feelings can be your servant or your master.

Mario: One will get you farther than the other. So if you have something in your life that is so important to you that you can't put it down, is it serving you or is it your master? That's a good

Luke: way of thinking that I, I was, I was, I was wondering when you were gonna close this loop, and that's actually a very, very interesting observation.

Luke: Yeah, man. It's because like right now, like I, I would [00:55:00] consider myself someone who like route setting and climbing. Like, those things are very much things I don't feel like I could ever step away from. Yeah. Ever. You know what I'm saying? I like, I, I, I like not to, not to sound dark or anything, but like, no, I feel you.

Luke: I don't, I don't think, like, I, I can't, I can't fathom my life without rock climbing. Does that make sense? I, I can't, I can't imagine what I would fill my week with without it. Does that make

Mario: sense? I think the, the challenge I would tell Ute is, is. I don't think about filling and don't think about filling your week.

Mario: Just let it be empty. But most importantly, put rock climbing in the box where it needs to be every once in a while where it's just a job and you already enjoy your job. It's not like you disen enjoy, dislike

Luke: it. Yeah. No, no. So, yeah, so if you can, I think you've gotten this, uh, [00:56:00] impression that I don't have hobbies,

Mario: which No, no, no.

Mario: I know you, I, I know you have other shit. You do. You fly my shit white boy. I know you fly. Hey, mad about it, . But like, no, no, I'm just saying just for the, for the mindset for like the depth of mine here. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like I think if you could, maybe just for like two weeks, you know, two weeks rock route setting is just a job.

Mario: You come in, you do it, but then whatever other else, hobbies that you have, whatever other. I mean, you fucking go Dr. Korki and down the fucking rabbit hole, Alison Wonderland, you know, 30,000 leagues under the sea deep. Mm-hmm. . And just have fun with it. And you might have no fucking clue what you're doing, but that's the joy.

Mario: Yeah. And I think that's the thing is that the, that was one of the first joys of rock climbing. We had no fucking clue what we're doing. Yeah. But it was fun. And like, how can you re-channel that energy or that kind of like thing into something else? Because I find when I come back to climbing, you appreciate it more.

Mario: Oh my God. Yeah. I [00:57:00] fucking love climbing way more. Yeah.

Luke: I think, I think for me right now, like what stands out to me the most is something that I want to put my extra energy into. Um, nice. We're gonna re-up here in a minute. Solid. Um, one thing that I always told myself that I would do is put out my own chatbook.

Mario: Chatbook. A

Luke: chatbook is like a collection of poetry, sometimes accompanied by pictures art. Um, but it's like something you loosely if you put together yourself and you give to those around you.

Mario: Have you ever read Walt Women Leaves of Grass?

Luke: I have, yeah. It's good. Very good. Um, and, uh, the first person that I ever knew who did this was my buddy Austin Islam, when we were in high school together.

Luke: He was like probably the, probably the [00:58:00] smartest person I've ever met in my life. Um, Yeah, he was like 17. I was 16 when he first wrote his, his first chatbook, and I still have a copy of it. It's called A Lion in His Pride. And uh, that's a good name. It was a fucking great name, dude. He's like, uh, he also has this line in that chatbook that says, my wordplay is swordplay.

Luke: And it's just like, damn dude, dude, he's, he, is he a rapper? No, but like, should be. He, he has the wit and, and the can, the, the, the cadence of somebody who like could just spit, you know what I'm saying? And, uh, anyways, I don't, I don't know that he has rap rap music out there, but he, he could

Mario: Hold on. Hold on.

Mario: Okay. So for those of you who do not know, we're in my apartment recording, but I have something you might enjoy. Hold on.

Luke: what is this? Ready to

Mario: burst my El [00:59:00] Glover. What is this? So this is a book that I, are you saving this page by the way? No, no. I have another copy. Okay. It's yours. Um, yeah, I have another copy of that book. Um, but um, it is a book of poetry written by a Haitian Hades Haitian, uh, artist and is originally written in French, but this is the English version

Luke: translated by Archipelago books.

Luke: It

Mario: is beautiful. I've read this book once through, um, but it is gorgeous. But it's yours. Dude,

Luke: I'm like, I'm already in. Yeah. This is, I'm, thank you so much. Yeah. I, dude, I can't, I can't

Mario: believe this. This is amazing. Yeah. As soon as you said that, I was like, fuck, I, I, I know a book is on my shelf that you need to have, dude.

Mario: Thank you.

Luke: Yeah, dude, I, I I, I, I will read all of this tomorrow. I promise you. . Yeah, dude. Have like, I'm one of those people where, like, like you said, when, when you know you love something, you can't put it [01:00:00] down. That's like, whenever, whenever I find that thing that tickles me that way, I like, I can't, it's heavy.

Luke: I'll re I'll read it in 14, like, I'll read it all day. You know? I, I

Mario: I will do. It's heavy though. There are, oh, I believe you. There, there are some poems in there where like, I literally, it shatters you. I had to book the book down. I was just like, fuck. I'm like, damn, dude. I was like, fuck. Okay. This is dark.

Mario: Yeah. And this is real because like, Haiti's dude, Haiti like

Luke: shit has been wild. It's one of the most tumultuous and tragedy ridden places. Yeah.

Mario: It and is also, it's one of the most victorious places for minority cultures cuz it's the only place in history that ever had a successful slave volt. The only place in history that I know of.

Mario: But now if I'm wrong, well someone please correct my ass real fast. Yeah. But from what I understand, it is the only place that has had a successful slave volt. However, they have definitely set, felt the retribution of like what we would call an America [01:01:00] redlining and all this other shit. Like it's fucked.

Mario: And then, I don't know, Haiti is a weird place like, you know, between earthquakes and all the shit that's gone down there. Like it's just, it's just, it's it, it's, it's one of those few places on earth that like if I ever get the champs to go and climb and travel that place. . Like, I don't know if there's rock climbing on that island or not, but like this is one of those places where like, I would like to go, but I don't want to be your standard, like for the lack of a better term, gringo tourists, where I'm just like, I'm coming in, I'm doing my thing.

Mario: Like right. Like yeah. Like I would like to go there and just like photo op n Yeah. I want to go there. You don't want it to be that. Yeah. I, I want to go there and get permission. I want to go there and meet people. Yeah. I want to go there. I want to have a relationship with people and have a reason to go back multiple times.

Mario: And Tony just build a relationship with Tony. That's what his name is. Tony Bolted. Most dude. Dude. Sira. I will

Luke: say this like you're the [01:02:00] last person that I would ever worry about being a gringo tourist. In any situation. You know what I'm saying? That's right. I appreciate that. Like, like if you were to go there, like I know that you'd do it.

Luke: Right. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate

Mario: that. I appreciate it. It's just, you're,

Luke: you're like, you're talking, you're already mentioning how you wanna build relationships. You do that everywhere you go. You realize that, you know what I

Mario: mean? Kind of. Yeah. I mean, like,

Luke: you, you do that though. Like you bring people together and you like share your hearth with them.

Luke: You know what I'm saying? I appreciate that man a lot. You're, yeah. You're incredibly, it's one of your, one of your gifts. You know what I'm saying? I

appreciate

Mario: that. That means a lot to me. Yeah,

Luke: man. I thank you so much for this man. I, I cannot wait to read it. This is beautiful. Yeah.

Mario: I'm about to say, do me a favor, just real quick so people know.

Mario: Can you read the title? Yeah.

Luke: It's called Ready to Burst and, uh, it's translated by, from the, from French by, uh, Kama. El Gover. Glover, sorry. [01:03:00] Um, yeah. And the author is, Franken Teen. Yeah. W uh, Franco Fr Franco. We're not French, but whoever, Franco, whoever else. Oh my God.

Mario: Yeah, dude. Like, you'll enjoy, like, I, I, but like I tell you man, like there were moments where I like read some chapters and I was like, I could visually like play out the theater in my mind.

Mario: And I was just like, and this story is go, we're going on a commercial break. I'm like, closing this. Yeah. But it was probably one of the most beautiful reads I've ever had in my life. I mean, I,

Luke: I, I think that that's, I think that's true of like a lot of music and art is like, your favorites are not necessarily the things that you want to experience every day, you

Mario: know?

Mario: No, no. Yeah, they're powerful. So what, like, so if you made, so when you make your Chatbook , have you started on it

Luke: or like at least I have. I have. . I have like a lot of things that I've are Are

Mario: they at like [01:04:00] a certain length

Luke: or is that No, no. A lot of like, uh, so I don't keep like a diary or a personal journal or any, or any physical copy of anything.

Luke: I probably should because it's less likely to get fucked by dropping it into a toilet or something. Yeah. But I, I keep like a, a, I don't even know how long it is, but like, I have this, this like list of notes in my, in my phone where I just write anything that, anything that I feel or that comes to mind.

Luke: Um, it could be literal, like a grocery, grocery list. It could be a to-do list. It could be, uh, a note to somebody that I draft in that note to read it to myself so that I know that it accurately represents how I feel the best that I can. Like I, uh, , I'm really anxious about my words, [01:05:00] misrepresenting my intentions.

Luke: Ah, for a long time when I was a kid, my mom and I would communicate by passing notes to each other under our doors. And it was a really, it's beautiful. It was a really, uh, helpful way for me to process things without the pressure of having to immediately react in a social situation. Does that make sense?

Luke: Mm-hmm. , so like, yeah, no, it does. You don't, and you, you get to process and then formulate and tell your story. I guess maybe in some regards, it's less representative of you because like, who are we? But the way we act under pressure, you know? No, I mean

Mario: that, I think that's a very true thing, but I,

Luke: I, I think that that formative experience with my mom probably is why I, that's how I, I.

Luke: Process my world. And I, I, I just write notes down. It'll be anything. It'll be literally anything. Like I could open my phone right now and read you something that I wrote like three days ago and it'd [01:06:00] be one, two words or it'd be like, fucking novel. It'll be something. And I'm not saying it's worth shit, but like part of me, I, I think we all feel this need to reach out, you know?

Luke: Mm-hmm. to, to connect. Yeah. Right. And I think that's what drives me is like, um, this desire to not feel alone. And that's why you create Yeah. Because creation is something we connect over. Mm-hmm. , it's something that it's external to yourself that you experience and someone else can experience too. And then, , you share that.

Luke: It's funny, whereas like if you're just alone and you're not doing anything. Yeah. Right. Like no one, like there's nothing to spur interaction.

Mario: Right. You just kind of hit the nail on the head of why I like the bolt. That's why I like, that's

Luke: why I like route setting, dude. Yeah. No dude. It's [01:07:00] sharing this experience that I fucking love.

Luke: You know? It's like,

Mario: it's so, you like route setting and bolting is kind of the same thing. The only difference with bolting is it's like there's one little added bonus at the end, but um, it's like, I'll never forget the first time someone climbed one of my routes. They're like, I bet that's an

Luke: unreal. I can't

Mario: imagine they walked us in here.

Mario: Like the first thing they said is they, I got a fucking ass, like, why? Like why? And I'm, and I look at them, I'm, and I'm looking at 'em like, you're talking about from between both four and three, aren't you ? And they were just like, yeah, but really, I'm like, there's just no other way. And they're like, but you could have went this way.

Mario: You could. I'm like, yeah, but like you could have went far out, right? And it would've been great. You could have went far out left and it would've been easy, but, but you went direct. But we, we sent, we stayed in the middle. It was exciting, wasn't it? And they were like, yeah. I just, it was just that moment.

Mario: Like I just really, once again, the routes I like, like I [01:08:00] just, I had to commit to that like credit card and I'm like, it was good. As long as you keep your foot. It's so good and you can pull right through. And it was, it was this shot called dam. It's easy if you climb

Luke: it. Perfect .

Mario: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trust me, there's a reason why the route was called Dam.

Mario: It took me a long time to figured out the beta damn period. Yes. Well, damn, I wish I wasn Kendrick earlier. , yes. Um, but yeah, and it's like, and then one of the other things that I've, I really like about like bolding is too, it's like after people talk about the route and about that, I'm like, did you take a moment and enjoy the view?

Mario: And people were like, yeah, what was that thing off in the distance? I was like, it's actually this, like a cactus tree, or it's this old burned down abandoned house. It's this, it's this thing. Or you know, it's like, or it's just like if you, when you're standing next to the time at the top of the route, if you lean all the way out, if you're tall enough, you lean all the way out and you look, you can get this like little line [01:09:00] sight of the Ozark Valley and you can just get to like some beautiful thing.

Mario: And it's like those are moments that. Just cannot be shared any other way, but the person experiencing it. Mm-hmm. , and I think that's like, that's one of the reasons why I like, it's just so cool because like, yeah, it's like, I don't know. There's no other way to describe it. It's like I met the guy who bet bolted one of the guys who bolted, uh, Texas Holdem, one of my favorite routes in uh, Las Vegas.

Mario: And I ran into him in the airport and like I was just, he was just, we just randomly started talking about climbing. Cause he saw my shoes on my bag. Mm-hmm. . And then he is like, yeah, I bolted a couple of routes. I was like, oh. And he is like, and when you're talking later on, I was like, did you bolt some stuff in black fellow candy?

Mario: He is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I bolted a few routes, like, you know, it's just like some, I helped some friends out, but big thing I worked on was Texas hold him. And I was like, holy fucking shit, . I was like, can we talk about pitch four? The, like the slash like short man Dino Traverse and can we talk [01:10:00] about pitch five or six, whichever one it is.

Mario: Where the overhanging dl Oh, like stemming like thing that you climb up and he was. It's fucking glorious, isn't it? I was like, holy shit, I found Jesus . And it was just like, you know, and but the thing is, is like you can only share those moments with someone who is like, done the route. And the thing about rock climbing is, is you also, it's not like just walking the hike.

Mario: Like, you gotta do the work. Yeah. You gotta do the work to get to the grade. And it's like, you know, it's like if, and, and, and I also don't wanna take away from anyone who is at whatever grade. I know this is probably silly for me to say, but like, each route in each grade, in each thing, or you are, you do so much work to get to your five 10, you do so much work to get to your five 11.

Mario: You do a lot of work and I don't wanna discount that, but all of that adds into it. That is, that is the crust of [01:11:00] the pecan pie that you are eating or you know, it is. . It is fantastic. And when you have those moments that you can share with people, it's just fucking mind blowing. And, and in all honesty, that's why I want to finish bolting this place in Texas, and I want to get it done.

Mario: It's like, you know, and I, and I'm well aware like this, like I'll show you some pictures of this place in a minute. Mm-hmm. , but like, like, I can't do this place all by myself as much as I want to. There's thousands of routes that are gonna come up. Jesus. Yeah. There's thousands. Like, I just, I just, I can't do it by myself.

Mario: And I want to, selfishly I want to, but what I really want to do is I would love, like, I just have this vision in my mind of just sitting at a campfire or sitting at a night and hearing and sitting with a bunch of homies and friends and just sitting there and hearing a group of people talk about this route and that route.

Mario: And just having this swell of pride come up and just being like, [01:12:00] we have been able to create something that is connecting people. together who live in entirely different walks of life. Totally, yeah. From dirt baggers to, you know, high powered lawyers to, you know, surgeons to, you know, grocery baggers, you know, and these people are talking about the same thing and finding connection.

Mario: And I think that's the beauty of climbing and I think that's the beauty of our sport. It's like the, you know, the equalizer is the wall and I want to see the world on my walls really badly. And that's like the most important thing to me. I wanna see the entire world weapon on the, uh, represented on our walls and then hopefully at the campfire, everybody brings their cultural food so we can all just like, go to town.

Mario: Cuz that's, that literally

Luke: is like the stuff of dreams, you know? It's like, it is beautiful. It is. I think some of my like fondest memories are always like just shared moments in nature with others. . [01:13:00] Yeah. Usually around a fire.

Mario: Yeah, man. Like, like , I'll be honest with you. Like usually,

Luke: usually with like good alcohol and good food, you know,

Mario: too.

Mario: I, I don't care what you were cooking when you've been climbing all day. You were fucking Gordon Ramsey. Yeah. When you were on the campfire for real. Yeah, because all the food is good. Because like, I remember one of my friends was just like, how much olive oil or butter are you putting in this thing? I'm like, not fucking, not enough

Mario: Yeah, dude. I remember literally like eating this meal, and I like had like, maybe like a tablespoon of butter left and I just like ate the tablespoon of butter, just going to bed. And dude, I just, it was cold. It was Arkansas, dude. It was Arkansas on freeway out there. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I ate a tablespoon of like, ate a tablespoon of butter and I slept like a fucking baby.

Mario: Nice. And then later on I learned that mountaineers will eat like a full tablespoon or like a like a little.

Luke: I don't know. Calorie dense.

Mario: Yes. Calorie dense. And they're like, it's just like your [01:14:00] body. It's this, it's the lightest thing that you can eat, that your body will work so hard to burn while you're sleeping and you stay warm.

Mario: Mm-hmm. And I was just like, that is so fucking clever. Mm-hmm. Like, these guys would just like eat sticks of butter. I, I, I mean, it was something I heard, I don't know if it's true or not, but it makes sense to me cuz you're just like, all right, dinner's done, blah, blah, blah. We're about to go to sleep. You know, I, the thing that I heard is like either a stick of butter, a strip of bacon, or, I can't remember what the third thing was, but it was like a strip of butter or a strip of bacon and it's like, but you want something dense that your body can work on.

Mario: Yeah. While you're sleeping. Cause then when you wake. , you're not in this like depleted state. Yeah. And also key, if you do do stripper butter, it has to be salted butter cannot be

Luke: unsalted. You also get some electrolytes up in there. Yeah, yeah. I got

Mario: you. Key thing,

Luke: dude. Uh, I think [01:15:00] you just reminded me like how much I enjoy or I've, I've learned recently that I enjoy being alone on a trip.

Luke: My most recent trip, I went out solo and it was incredibly rewarding. I climbed better than I ever have, and I think it's because I was there without, I don't know. What I'm, what I'm ultimately trying to arrive at is that like I, I don't know how I would ever come across this opportunity, but I would love to like develop boulders on my own.

Luke: You know what I'm saying? Oh bro. But like,

Mario: I, but bro, bro, I got you. I got you. I think that

Luke: that would be incredibly. enjoyable for me because, um, as I've, as I've aged, I've, I've found that solitude is like a necessity in my life. It's not something that like I can go without [01:16:00] for too long before I have to have it.

Luke: You know what I'm saying?

Mario: I, I got you. Especially on the developing boulder size. We'll, we'll, we'll talk about some other zones. Yeah. Talk about some zones, some secret zones. But, uh, but, uh, but I will say

Luke: this though, but also that's productive and gives back. It's not like I need solitude in a way that I need to, like sulk away into a cave.

Luke: No, no, no. Interact, which is, which is something I'm want to do often. No, get me wrong. It's needed. I to have to avoid it though,

Mario: you know? Yeah. No, I think it's needed. I think the one thing I will say this is like, I bolt a lot by myself. Mm-hmm. , but the nicest moments, like, okay, I bolt a lot by myself. , and I love every moment of it.

Mario: It bes my soul, it grounds me, it helps make me who I am. You know, I spend more money doing it than I probably should, but um, it just, it settles me, right? Yeah. But I will say this the most rewarding [01:17:00] times or when I'm doing it with someone else, and it's like, I never, like, I, I'm with you. Like I preferred Bolt by myself 90% of the time that's what I do.

Mario: But the few times I do, do it with a homie, it is really, really, really, really, really rewarding because when you're like done with the whole process, I don't know. It's just, it's just something about sharing in the moment with the someone regardless whether their abilities or whether they were bolting or not, or whatever that, but just sharings with someone in that moment where someone can kind of acknowledge the work that you're putting into it.

Mario: and they don't have to understand it, but what they just see, I guess more like this, they see the work, they see the effort, they see it, and they just acknowledge that like, this is a lot. And that alone, that one little bit of validation moves mountains sometimes. And it's honestly like, it, it helps me keep g [01:18:00] going, doing it.

Mario: Mm-hmm. like, you know, my one longtime climbing partner and bolting partner will like, he's the only one I really bolt with. And um, it's been one of those things where like Charles thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, like, I mean it's, you know, it's like we're an old married couple that just doesn't talk for like nine hours in a day, but we're like as fuck dude, dude, we're so happy to be next to each other.

Mario: And it's like, at the end of it we're like, , do you see my line? I'm like, yeah, dude, it's sexy. It's great. , you're great too. I mean, you're sexier than your line, but your line is real sexy . And it is just like, you know, and it's just, it's fucking beautiful man. And I think, I do think what we need, I agree with you like that solitude grounds you, like I, I, I have to have

Luke: it.

Luke: Maybe it's not developing that I wanna do, but like I, I want to play more with my own, like, exploration into climbing alone. I think

Mario: developing is, would be, I

Luke: [01:19:00] perform terribly in crowds.

Mario: I think developing would work well for you. But I think there, there's a couple zones that I'm thinking about and I, I gotta holler at some homies just to make sure I can, like, I, I can get like the clearance, but like, there's a few zones that I can think about that taken you to, um, I think you would do really well with developing.

Mario: But I also think like, Developing is very, very, very, especially bouldering, like developing rope climbing to me is like a lot easier than bouldering. Just just to me because like bouldering is like it. I don't know. To each his own. To each his own. So I'm just gonna say this cuz Chris Hampton would probably argue that otherwise, but I think developing rope climbing is this, it's more work and sometimes it turns into a bus, but it's still more worth it and bouldering, it's just a different animal.

Mario: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. But I think you would like it. And I think [01:20:00] I, I'm honestly very curious. I think if you were able to have the opportunity to develop bouldering for a little bit, I think your route setting would utterly transform. After a couple months, like I think you would develop a little bit, develop a little bit, and.

Mario: For the lack of a better term, once it finally percolates a little bit and the percolator is kind of like putting out coffee. Yeah, I think the coffee would be

Luke: different. I think for me right now, my route setting is like quite, I can predict it. It's very movement based. I want it to be a lot more nuanced though.

Mario: But what

Luke: does nuance mean? To mean? Nuance right now? Like in an age where like there are 50 new companies making grips that are all smooth, textured. There's, there's smooth grips. They're directional, they might be dual texts. You know, it's like there's a lot of homogeneity in the grip world right now.

Luke: Mm-hmm. . And I think the nuance of like some of the fucked up nature of like grabbing rock is lost [01:21:00] in a modern climbing

Mario: gym. Limestone is better. What? I'm just gonna say that now. I just wanted to say that. Um, just cause limestone, like I feel like what you're talking about is that this is where we diverge, dude.

Mario: Do have you climbed on fucked up limestone?

Luke: I'm just saying like, I'm not saying that like it needs to be super fucked up, but nuanced. Like, I mean, I love southern like sandstone's my favorite probably, but like, like the small little like things that make a grip that don't make it comfortable necessarily or that don't make it like a full handed, you know, hold or whatever.

Luke: But like the things that make it interesting are what make the bolder interesting. And I think my route setting does not reflect that aspect of climbing. My route setting is very fucking like forefinger. Movement based. It's movement based. Yes. Which is okay. Yes. Which is okay, but [01:22:00] like I want it to become more nuanced in the tactile aspect of it.

Luke: And that's what, that's what I'm trying to focus on more right now. You and I think what you're saying about like learning to develop will help with that. You know, you need

Mario: to climb. Does that make sense? Yes. But you need to climb in, um, El Alto. El Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to climb in El Salto in Mexico.

Mario: And this is like, people can like get on me all you want and all y'all hate is can go, you know, y'all can go somewhere else. But limestone to me is one of those few rocks that like, it's so fucked up in so many ways, but like, you just, it's like it's. There's either, okay, there are two kinds of limestone.

Mario: It's either really comfortable or not comfortable at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and , like sandstone is fluffy. It's great. It's really directional. It's like, but you, you're never gonna get the [01:23:00] shit kicked out of you too much in lamb, in sandstone, like your physical, like me, you, you walk away still feeling like a human being.

Mario: Granite, it's just a different monster altogether. Like, that's just a whole nother world. But at the same time, but lionstone is this dark art where it could be really straightforward. Then you get into this tufa, then this tufa disappears, and then next thing you know, you got these weird little pockets, and then these like shallow choppy, like three finger scoopy ice cream crimps.

Mario: And then next thing you know, you're doing this on a roof, and then you, it, the, the whole thing gave way. And then there's a shelf that you gotta go foot first with elephant man. But you know, it, it's just, I think limestone is that rock that like really is this like un you just, you just don't know what you're gonna get into.

Mario: And like I think that's the thing you just have to accept with it. Like granite, I think you can kind of figure out what you're getting [01:24:00] into for the most part. Like it's pretty linear rock, you know, and sandstone is just, eh, it's give or take depending on where you're going. H HP 40 is a completely different ballgame.

Mario: I'm just gonna go ahead and call this out there. It's only like, like HB 40 and font are the only two places in the world that exists like that. Um, but even then limestone is just this weird monster and I think that if you climb in El Alto, like just go off and especially do some of the routes that are off the beaten path, I think you would get a hankering for what you want.

Mario: Yeah.

Luke: Definitely need to venture out more. Something that was

Mario: challenging to do. Dude, we gotta go to Mexico. Like, we're right here. We're in Texas. We're right here. Yeah. Fair enough. Well, sir, um, it is, I'm gonna, as much as I don't wanna wrap this up, but I am [01:25:00] gonna wrap this up so we can also have a little bit more wine and kick it.

Mario: Um, but um,

Mario: what, it's funny, it's weird. I like, I have, I normally have all these questions that I like, like No, you're good. Ask people at the end. But for you it's just cause I've known you so long, it's different. Um, honestly, if you could give someone some advice about moving into route setting. Cause I think you've, once again, your career has been like, I think you've had, I really think you've had the full kaleidoscope effect.

Mario: Of your career. If someone's getting into route setting and they wanna be a commercial route setter, what is the expectation that they should really, what expectations should they have? And then what do you think is the most important thing that they should focus on?

Luke: Um, I think the [01:26:00] expectation kind of depends on the work environment you're in.

Luke: Mm-hmm. , uh, there's still some gyms that are production based, so like, to get paid, you gotta set three routes, you know, and then there are some, there are more modern forward thinking gyms that are, you know, hourly or salary based. Um, but the expectation should always be that like you're in an environment where you're like, you should expect that your employer will put you in an environment where you're not asked to do something that, um, You're uncapable of, but, uh, they're, they're, that they're encouraging, encouraging you to grow, um, and to constantly be seeking feedback for your routes.

Mario: Is that from your employer and the community or from, from the community?

Luke: Like what your employer thinks of your route is secondary to the community. [01:27:00] Mm-hmm. Like, in fact, it's oftentimes informed by the community or it's like a, a misinformed version of what the community thinks. Mm-hmm. Like there are sometimes where owners like want something totally different from what the community wants.

Luke: I've never found myself in a position like that, but I've talked to other route setters where like their owner is just totally disconnected from what the community actually cares about. Yeah. No,

Mario: that's, it's more common than you

Luke: would think. It's where like you have an owner who's like big money bags community actually loves climbing owner doesn't this shit owner wants to do their own thing, cuz.

Luke: They're about making money. Making power. Yeah. Or, or, or wanna make money. Yeah. But either way, they have ulterior motives to what the community wants. A good route setter, your expectations should be that like you're seeking feedback from the community directly or indirectly via communications. Like whatever, social media, fucking email, what have you.

Luke: And you take that and you implement on it, like you iterate on it. And um, [01:28:00] as long as you do that, you literally won't fail. Like, I don't think you can fail because you're in a position of servitude. You're putting yourself in a position of like, I'm here to make a better experience for you, not for anyone else.

Luke: Um, granted, like you don't want to curate everything for a specific human. Mm-hmm. . You wanna make it palatable to others as well. But like, you need to think about those people and find, find champions in your community that are trusted. and you can get honest, great feedback from, and they can tell you what others are thinking too, and listen to them and take their feedback seriously.

Luke: don't ignore them. Don't write 'em off. You know, don't let your ego get in the way either, you know? Um, but yeah, find your champions. I think expectations though, like it's a fucking hard job. Yeah. You know, I don't think

Mario: I, no, it is [01:29:00] this

Luke: dog work. When I was working at Summit, like, you know, we were always like drinking our own Kool-Aid.

Luke: Everyone's like, yeah, we work really hard. You know, we were told that, you know, um, uh, I've, I've gone and worked with a lot of other setters and, uh, I don't know that we work harder or less hard than anybody else, but like, it's a fucking challenging job. And if you don't enjoy. . If you don't take joy in challenging labor, then it's not a job for you.

Luke: Yeah. Um, people who shrug that sort of challenge, I don't think make it super far or they don't find joy in, in the work. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you gotta enjoy challenging work, but you also, uh, yeah. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm starting to go in circles too now.

Mario: No, no. But you know, it's funny when you talk about re uh, information from the community, I'm not gonna lie, I'm, I'm only gonna say one.

Mario: I'm gonna [01:30:00] say Mr. And then I'm gonna say the word Mr. Savage. . Mr. Savage. You know what I'm talking about. What's up, Kyle? Hey, Kyle. Oh, damn. We just put it out there. Okay. . It's okay. No, he got, he got a lot better over time. Uh, I, no, I, I always liked him though. Like, I'm not gonna lie, he's a hater. Just a hate.

Mario: But I also liked him because, The thing, the thing I liked about Kyle was this is he was unabashful about what he wanted to say regardless whether clearly, yeah. Wherever it was coming from. Yeah, like, like it's a weird balance, but like I feel like, I don't know, I feel like there's not enough people like him in the world, especially in the climbing world right now, because everybody ever holds setters on such this high pedestal.

Mario: Totally. Or they're just like, they don't know what they're fucking talking about. And I'm like, yeah, it's one

Luke: or the other. It's like either they're like, I've literally, literally had a member be like, you [01:31:00] guys are like gods. And I'm like, whoa. Please don't ever say that to me again and ever shut up, . Walk away.

Luke: And then you have people who like say the opposite, who are like, who are these freaking, you know, monkeys with wrenches, you know, putting holds on the wall and you're like, it's somewhere in between. You know, we're not, we're not like, we're not fucking brilliant geniuses, but we're also not idiots. Like we probably know a bit more about rock climbing than you do.

Luke: Yeah. And that, I'm not saying that out of an ego. I'm saying like, just

Mario: day. No. Like you are literally putting, and like the Gordon Ramsey is Gordon Ramsey, or whatever. How many hours have you put into out setting this

Luke: over a hundred hours? Valley Ranch ? No, my God. Oh God, no.

Mario: God, fucking no. Yeah, yeah. No, it's funny.

Mario: But I

Luke: also know that I'm not jro dreams of sushi. You know, I'm not, I'm not serving up $300 bites of raw fish, you know? Yeah, no, I think that I'm [01:32:00] just finding the happy medium between you.

Mario: Yeah. I think you do a good job of it now. Like I've climbed on, like I said, man, I've tried climbed on your routes for years and I think the one thing that I do more than anything else is like, I always go to gyms and I get a lot of shit for this, for with the people that I bolt, but like the f my most favorite grades bowl are five 11 c d, all the way down to like 10, eight to five nine.

Mario: Cause there are some five nine s where it'll change your fucking life.

Luke: I've heard about five nine s that like, I would never want to climb . Oh

Mario: my God. There's, I'm like, dude, like, no. I've gotten on some where I'm just like, I hear

Luke: about shit in the Wichitas where I'm like, why would I ever do that?

Mario: Yeah. No, the Wichitas will put hair on your chest, but like, no doubt.

Mario: Yeah. But like, dude, I've gotten on some things in the Sierras where I'm just like, oh, like when, when do we play? Like, nah, just keep going. I'm like, we are rope solo wing. Yeah. We are not rock climbing. Yeah. This is solo wing. And they're just like, nah, bro, [01:33:00] you'd be, I you'd be, I

Luke: fuck that dude. . But then fuck that.

Luke: Like, I'm, I'm just gonna say it like I, having been somebody who's taken. A very high fall. Oh, and oh. Yeah. And gotten to not be permanently maimed by it. Like, I don't fucking want to do that again. Too many copies. It's not worth it. Like I, the way you win this game is by playing it as long as possible. You know, it's funny, you know what I'm saying?

Luke: Andrew? Kirk, like, I wanna be 70 fucking years old and still clipping draws. I don't wanna be 35 and like dead. Yeah,

Mario: yeah. Fuck that. No, Andrew . Andrew. Andrew Turbo said this best to me. He was like the one who's had the one who sends the most and has the most fun while sending that you Yeah. Wins the most.

Mario: Yeah. The one who sends the most but hates it is not really winning at all. Yeah. And no dude, I, I totally 100% agree with you, but like, yeah, five nine, is that a mythical grade? Dude, five

Luke: nine is the most like wild card grade by far. [01:34:00] Yeah. Like, no, by far. Is the joker across the country or the world? No. No.

Mario: The world. Yeah. Worldwide. No, worldwide. Like it is a joker grade. Cuz someone's gonna be like, yeah, this is a great five nine. It's real casual and you get on it and you like, motherfucker, like, I have not placed a piece of gear. This route is 125 feet tall. I have not placed gear for 45 fucking feet . And then they're like, yeah, it's right there.

Mario: And then it's like, cool. Then you place this number one and then like, okay, go to the anchors. You're like, excuse me. Yeah. Like that's such how that shit goes insane. Yeah. But like, those are like my favorite, favorite,

Luke: favorite grades. I'm sure they're incredible. It's just like, I, it just like, at this point how, for me like.

Luke: I, I, I, I, I can't imagine the day that I like lay eyes on a route where I'm like, that route is worth dying for. You

Mario: know? No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Won't happen, I don't

Luke: think. But no, maybe it will one

Mario: day, but like no, I, it won't. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you right now from many, from many years of experience.

Mario: No, no. Cool. [01:35:00] Nope, nope. It's like, nah, bro. You can put that up on top rope for me. I'm all right. Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately, I think what we're saying here is climbing

Luke: free solo killed the top rope hero .

Mario: Oh my God. Yes. Yes. Sorry, Jimmy. You're not sorry, Jimmy. Um, but, uh, I think ultimately what we're saying here is climbing.

Mario: Climbing is the thing that we do, but it is not define us. We define ourselves. We define ourselves within the acts. That we do. And some of those acts ha so happen to be climbing and some of those acts happen to be other things. And I think this podcast, this whole episode kind of boils down too that I don't know, like I, I feel like this whole episode that we've been talking about, like if I had to like draw it down to a conclusion, is that you must be a multifaceted human being [01:36:00] in order to be successful at whatever endeavor, whether it be climbing, mountain biking, downhill skiing, whatever it is, but like you must be a multifaceted human being because if whatever you're doing is your end all be all, then it is your master and you are a slave to it.

Mario: For sure. I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't have experience doing this, but my ancestors do. But being a slave shit fucking sucks. And so, Embrace yourself. Be free. Do what you gotta do. And, um, you know, just know that like there's more to life than, than just pulling on grips. At the end of the day, if people want to find you, get in touch with you, support you, or do anything, how they do that.

Mario: Um,

Luke: probably the easiest way is on social media. I mean, a gram. I've got a, I've got a gram. Oh dude. Got

Mario: a couple. Oh dude. Oh, you got a couple grams. I, which, hold on. Which gram do you [01:37:00] want people to actually hit you with? I

Luke: have a public one that's intended for like, fitness climbing stuff that's called at Skinner Spray.

Luke: I lean heavy into that. Nice, nice. Just like unabashed sharing of bouldering routes, route setting, nice. Blah, blah, blah, training. Awesome. But, uh, yeah, I mean, if there's anybody you know who's listening, who resonated with, you know, anything that we talked about, I, you know, hit me up. I'm. I'm, uh, I try to be responsive to people.

Luke: Um,

Mario: 48 hour window people, 48 hour window ,

Luke: not even dude,

Mario: friends and enemies, lovers and haters. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Luke. It brought me joy and then it also made me realize I love red, red wine, [01:38:00] but we'll move on from that. As always, please follow, like, subscribe, make sure you join our Patreon so you can be in the know. And most importantly, if you're not suffering, are you even sending at all?